Employing lanyard SRT-style: descending?

LordFarkwad

Well-Known Member
Does using a lanyard in a choked set up to ascend past PSP using a foot ascender (maybe 10-15' or so) also require a multiscender to descend back to the PSP?

I've been ascending past my PSP (and advancing my base tied PSP) using alternating lanyards and climbing on branches, but I want to try using my foot ascender and just going straight up.
 

moss

Well-Known Member
Does using a lanyard in a choked set up to ascend past PSP using a foot ascender (maybe 10-15' or so) also require a multiscender to descend back to the PSP?

I've been ascending past my PSP (and advancing my base tied PSP) using alternating lanyards and climbing on branches, but I want to try using my foot ascender and just going straight up.
For short downward movements on a lanyard in SRT mode I use my feet on the tree and/or a hand loading up the tail to take load off the hitch enough to make it functional. I frequently use my foot ascender on the tail of my lanyard to make upward movements.
-AJ
 

LordFarkwad

Well-Known Member
Ok, good to know. Didn't know what the behavior of a hitch alone would be like if walking back down the trunk. Will give it a try low and see what happens. Taking pressure off of the hitch using a brake hand definitely seems like it would help.
 

John@TreeXP

Well-Known Member
A lanyard is just another name for climbing system. For rec climbing, I use a short 15' lanyard for quick tie ins on my side D's, but also use either a 30' or 50' lanyard, for MRS and/or SRS, at times with a Throw Hook and a RAD system, from my rope bridge for positioning and for advancing. A rope grab works great on the short lanyard, and for the longer lanyard, some sort of multicender is my preference.
 

LordFarkwad

Well-Known Member
Thanks, John.

I currently use an 18' 1/2" Bluestreak double-ended lanyard, but have a 30' High-Vee (1/2" Safety Blue) that I'd like to set up the same way and employ for the purpose of longer vertical ascents once at the PSP. The 18 footer seems like it would be on the edge of being a little limiting (would be limited to probably 5'-8' ascents if I only had that one lanyard, since I'd need enough length to tie in while I toss one of the tails up, over, and back down to myself before cinching and taking up slack).
 

moss

Well-Known Member
Ok, good to know. Didn't know what the behavior of a hitch alone would be like if walking back down the trunk. Will give it a try low and see what happens. Taking pressure off of the hitch using a brake hand definitely seems like it would help.
Yeah basically you're making yourself into a human Rope Wrench. You hear a lot of climbers talking about use a hitch only as a progress capture for the DMM Captain Hook. Same deal, if you want to let line out on the Hook to say change your position, some hand/arm pressure on the tail and use of your feet on the tree will allow you to do that. A problem arises if you forget and attempt to descend on the hitch for more than a couple feet with all of your load on the hitch, then it binds up tight as expected and you have to completely unload it to loosen it up.

For longer descents on a "single rope" configured lanyard a "hitch only" rope grab will definitely frustrate you.
-AJ
 

JeffGu

Well-Known Member
This also works well with certain mechanical adjusters... most notably the Trango Cinch, Petzl Zillon and ART Positioner. The standard rope grabs are a no-go for this, but there are positioners that work well for a short SRT climb/descent with manual braking techniques. If your descent ends up near vertical with your full weight on the device, you can use an ascender and arm strength to ease yourself down in 18" ~ 24" steps (if, for example, you are too far away from stem to walk down).
 

LordFarkwad

Well-Known Member
I don't have a friction saver, which is part of the reason I was considering doing all this with SRS instead of MRS. However, I have a 10' of tubular webbing in the mail that might make all this SRS-talk irrelevant.

Is most of the application for an SRS lanyard setup for limb-walking? In my case, I was thinking it'd help me advance without having to use the tree like a ladder, but also without having to deal with the friction and wear of going MRS sans friction saver.
 

LordFarkwad

Well-Known Member
Do folks advance with lanyard in MRS configuration still using a foot ascender on the tail? I've actually never tried this, believe it or not. I've been solely in SRS mode for ascent, except during alternating lanyards once in the canopy where I can use the branches themselves.
 

moss

Well-Known Member
I don't have a friction saver, which is part of the reason I was considering doing all this with SRS instead of MRS. However, I have a 10' of tubular webbing in the mail that might make all this SRS-talk irrelevant.

Is most of the application for an SRS lanyard setup for limb-walking? In my case, I was thinking it'd help me advance without having to use the tree like a ladder, but also without having to deal with the friction and wear of going MRS.
Yes, especially on conifers when you're up high where bark is thinner or for any thin-barked tree situation SRS lanyard mode protects the cambium and protects your gear from conifer pitch. I use my short lanyard in SRS mode more than I do in MRS mode, it's my climbing style. SRS mode lanyard for positioning running a saw, especially pruning, I can set the lanyard so precisely not worrying about where a branch or limb union is, can get ultimate balance/comfort for work positioning. For advancing when no "normal" tie-in is available (choking the spar). For creating a "step up", stand on the lanyard tail with my foot ascender. For holding position or creating swing-back protection as needed during limb walks. A strong technical tool to have available.
-AJ
 

moss

Well-Known Member
Do folks advance with lanyard in MRS configuration still using a foot ascender on the tail? I've actually never tried this, believe it or not. I've been solely in SRS mode for ascent, except during alternating lanyards once in the canopy where I can use the branches themselves.
Yes, all the time.
-AJ
 

LordFarkwad

Well-Known Member
Yes, especially on conifers when you're up high where bark is thinner or for any thin-barked tree situation SRS lanyard mode protects the cambium and protects your gear from conifer pitch. I use my short lanyard in SRS mode more than I do in MRS mode, it's my climbing style. SRS mode lanyard for positioning running a saw, especially pruning, I can set the lanyard so precisely not worrying about where a branch or limb union is, can get ultimate balance/comfort for work positioning. For advancing when no "normal" tie-in is available (choking the spar). For creating a "step up", stand on the lanyard tail with my foot ascender. For holding position or creating swing-back protection as needed during limb walks. A strong technical tool to have available.
-AJ
I'm actually climbing tall pines mostly. Sap sucks, I'm finding out especially on the climbing line when descending.

Here's the whole picture: I'm on a basal tie and what I envision myself doing is reaching my PSP, lanyarding in, throwing other end of lanyard up over crotch 10' or whatever I can reach, bring it back down to me, clip and run the cinch up snug, then ascend using foot ascender.

This is what brought up the issue of getting back down to the initial PSP. If I was advancing my base tie, then I'd just use multiscender like usual to descend from the new PSP. But even if I was advancing the base tie and hence had the multiscender with me, what if I got up there to where I cinched the lanyard and changed my mind about advancing it for whatever reason? How would I get back down and relocate the climb line to its original position?
 

moss

Well-Known Member
I'm actually climbing tall pines mostly. Sap sucks, I'm finding out especially on the climbing line when descending.

Here's the whole picture: I'm on a basal tie and what I envision myself doing is reaching my PSP, lanyarding in, throwing other end of lanyard up over crotch 10' or whatever I can reach, bring it back down to me, clip and run the cinch up snug, then ascend using foot ascender.

This is what brought up the issue of getting back down to the initial PSP. If I was advancing my base tie, then I'd just use multiscender like usual to descend from the new PSP. But even if I was advancing the base tie and hence had the multiscender with me, what if I got up there to where I cinched the lanyard and changed my mind about advancing it for whatever reason? How would I get back down and relocate the climb line to its original position?
Different strokes for different folks, I don't particularly like double-ended lanyards. If I'm in a big conifer and climb above a basal anchored access line I simply leave it where it is and continue moving up with a short lanyard and a "long lanyard", anywhere from 30' to 60' line depending on the size and characteristics of the conifer. I can back down as much as I need to with the longer "lanyard" in MRS or SRS mode (with a retrieval setup at the choke). You could be trying too hard to make your lanyard fit a particular climbing scenario, it might not be the best approach for what you're trying to accomplish.
-AJ
 

theatertech87

Well-Known Member
There's a couple videos giorgio fiori put up on his youtube channel that deal with using your lanyard to move your primary support point around the tree... Not sure if they'd be of any use to you. Also there is the MACA that allows you to advance your canopy anchor (if you're going to make a false crotch, plan it to be midline and it's becomes dual use). Just remember to check the length of your rope as you advance your tie in point to ensure you can still reach the ground.


 

LordFarkwad

Well-Known Member
Different strokes for different folks, I don't particularly like double-ended lanyards. If I'm in a big conifer and climb above a basal anchored access line I simply leave it where it is and continue moving up with a short lanyard and a "long lanyard", anywhere from 30' to 60' line depending on the size and characteristics of the conifer. I can back down as much as I need to with the longer "lanyard" in MRS or SRS mode (with a retrieval setup at the choke). You could be trying too hard to make your lanyard fit a particular climbing scenario, it might not be the best approach for what you're trying to accomplish.
-AJ
So, maybe I should have made the post more open-ended.

So, I think I'm tracking with you, but just to make sure, you advance by either using MRS with a friction saver (sleeve or ring/ring), or SRS and relieve pressure on hitch manually with muscle-power, a la 'human rope wrench'? And you do that to the order of 30'-60' at a time?! Sounds taxing.

If the easiest, quickest, and/or safest is to just get an FS and go MRS with lanyard, no problem. Since getting into rope walking, I was just thinking that I'd love to be able to extend that approach above the PSP since it's so simple.

For the first time, I went out and tried MRS (with no FS) about 10' off the ground with a long lanyard, and a foot ascender. Worked ok, but I gotta get something together that's not going to chew up the rope and the tree. SRS would be real attractive, it seems like. I do have some tubular webbing coming, but I'm not sure how well that'll actually stay in a crotch (if I slide a piece on the lanyard and keep it there all the time). Any word?
 

LordFarkwad

Well-Known Member
There's a couple videos giorgio fiori put up on his youtube channel that deal with using your lanyard to move your primary support point around the tree... Not sure if they'd be of any use to you. Also there is the MACA that allows you to advance your canopy anchor (if you're going to make a false crotch, plan it to be midline and it's becomes dual use). Just remember to check the length of your rope as you advance your tie in point to ensure you can still reach the ground.


Whew, that's beyond my pay grade! At my current skill level, I'm sure I don't need to be doing anything exotic to do what I'm wanting to do. It's probably just a case of inexperience and a few minutes with someone in person would fix it.
 

yoyoman

Well-Known Member
Does using a lanyard in a choked set up to ascend past PSP using a foot ascender (maybe 10-15' or so) also require a multiscender to descend back to the PSP?

I've been ascending past my PSP (and advancing my base tied PSP) using alternating lanyards and climbing on branches, but I want to try using my foot ascender and just going straight up.
If you choke your lanyard, do so without cross loading the snap or biner.
Be prepared to add friction, munter or ring and biner or the like if you must come down on it.
If when on the ground you know the plan is to advance past the TIP, don't make it retrievable to start with. Cinch the end with a quickie or screw link or running Alpine Butterfly. Then take the line with you, alternating between your lanyard and climbing line until reaching the desired TIP. Then make it retrievable from the ground, if desired.
I'm often climbing with a short 100' line and using a 6mm bailout cord for the retrieval. If the retrieval side is slightly short remember you can attach your lanyard on the way down and get that extra length. If you are going to do anything risky like cutting make sure you have a path to the ground. Know the length of your line and how much it takes to get to the ground, tie a stopper knot, with changing TIPs and techniques use a stopper knot to prevent going off the end.
I too am not a fan of a double ended lanyard but will use the tail of my line as a lanyard often.
Switching seamlessly from doubled moving rope to stationary rope on a HHx also makes going past the TIP and back down pretty easy.
 

LordFarkwad

Well-Known Member
Why all the hate/non-love for the double ended lanyard? Too much hardware?

Also, thought this in my sleep: what about a 3:1? As in, throw lanyard up, cinch, set an ascender or prusik with pulley, run tail of lanyard through, and climb on up. Gets rid of friction, but without a friction saver, as such.
 

LordFarkwad

Well-Known Member
Went up for a quick climb before work and tried the 3:1 hat because it would allow descent on a hitch only with no rope/tree friction. Used a 30' High-Vee lanyard, a prusik, and a CMI micro pulley.

It wasn't fast, and I need to get allot better at tossing the lanyard up, but it checks allot of boxes: no need for friction saver, no need for limbs to climb on, can use foot ascender (or even just arms), and - most importantly - can be used for descent (along with some sort of retrieval cord, as Mr. Mumford and others have mentioned).

Downsides are probably obvious to all of you, but for the sake of documentation...uses more line, is a little isn't as compact as I'd like (used simple Valdotain without any braids/tresses, but English might improve length), and is a little slow, at least for me at this point. Not sure if that will improve much.

IMG_20190507_064716898.jpgIMG_20190507_064847092.jpg
 
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