Elm and Oak

probationtree

New Member
I am looking for the best source of information on treating DED and Oak Wilt, which chemicals work the best, non-biased info on Almo and other treatments, also does anyone know if they are having any luck treating Ash trees for Em Ash Boer??
 

TreeDr

Active Member
I've only been involved with DED. I inject a few trees every year at the preventative rate and although there are DED infected Elms across the street or in the neighborhood, the trees I treat look spectacular. I have not injected a tree that is infected, by the time its diagnosed it's usually too late. /forum/images/graemlins/hoos.gif
 

tnttree

Well-Known Member
Our company protects over 300 elms. We treat preventivly and theraputicly, we have had great our records at the end of 04 indicate .08% losses on over 27oo treatments. Most of the losses were attributed to trees with restricted root flares do to fences, concrete, etc. We have always used Alamo do to its minimal injection site injury, and speed of uptake. Have you heard about the new generic Alamo out for 2005? it's 1/3 the cost
 

TreeJunkie

New Member
Tell me about it..the generic alamo....Who's making it....When will they come up w/ generic merit? and generic cambiastat?
 

treemann

Member
We use Profile 2SC that uses the same chemical as cambistat. The people that we get it from have designed an application system for it that makes it extremely easy to apply and they give really good product support.
 

samT

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Tell me about it..the generic alamo....Who's making it....When will they come up w/ generic merit? and generic cambiastat?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's available at Lesco now. if there isn't one by you pm me and I'll get you their info.
 

chad

New Member
i think i hear the patent on merit is going to run out in the next couple of years. there are a few alternatives in the growth regulator scene, but they are not all like paclobutrozol which is in cambistat. some alternative to alamo is arbortech. a good prevention is not to prune elms while they are foliated and if you must get some prevention coverage on the wounds.
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Chad,

a good prevention is not to prune elms while they are foliated and if you must get some prevention coverage on the wounds.

Do you know if this has been documented in some kind of study? This has been an anecdotal procedure for a long time but I haven't read of any research to support it. Of course, it does seem valid.
 

chad

New Member
here you go tom,
im pretty sure i read the info about not pruning elms while foliated in "diseases of trees and shrubs" a while back, but that book is at my shop and i am at home. however one of my texts here on the bookshelf by Pascal P. Pirone, "diseases and pests of ornamental plants" 5th ed. says that many observations noted healthy elms pruned in late july august and september were " more apt to contract the disease than those pruned at other times of the year."
My copy of ortho problem solver recommends spraying the wounds made from pruning done in the spring, again not the only place ive read that butjust some quick documentation from what i have here at home.
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Ortho is suspect since they have a financial interest in selling pruning paint.

Sometimes people observe things and make conclusions based on faulty data. Do you remember the parable about the five blind men you found an elephant?
 

tnttree

Well-Known Member
Technically All Elms probably could be pruned in the summer, the myth that you can't comes from the notion that wounds increases the trees (Pheranomes?)oh hell fragrance, which inturn supposedly attracts more elm beetles. There is no proof or studys that shows elm beetles are attracted to pruning wounds either way. Elm beetles lay there eggs in the upper twigs of the canopy there no is no proof of beetles entering pruning wounds.
As a company we don't have the time and energy to fight the tide of public opinion on the subject of pruning elms in the summer, so we hold all our elm pruning for the dormant season, accept for therapuetic pruning on diseased limbs.
Pruning paint is an outdated un scientific waste of your time and money that according to Shigo's studys, can only cause harm and no benefit to the tree. Shigo told me once how would you like an asphalt like product spread on your wounds, it makes no sense. Look to how Nature handles things and you will get lots of answers on how to care for trees. Ortho never met Shigo.
 

chad

New Member
i didnt say spray it with pruning paint. tom assumed that. the book recommended insecticide, of course an ortho one. if you want to know what i spray with it is bifenthrin. and as far as the reference to the observation and blind men, all of IPM is observation. you make your treatments based off the observations in the landscape. you asked for a source and i provided three. i dont know what else to tell you.
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
The blind guys/elephant metaphor is meant to illustrate how people make large jumps to conclusions based on incomplete data.

Has anyone got research that shows that spraying insecticides on cuts reduces pest infections? In order to be valid the research needs to be repeatable.
 

TProsser

New Member
Before you use Alamo for Dutch elm -read the research on the link below from Virginia Tech. Our company owns the rights to Alamo and our experience with Alamo was not very favorable for dutch elm disease. The trees lived for 1 year and then many died. This was in the late 1990's when it was first recommended by Syngenta for use with this disease.

http://www.rainbowtreecare.com/pdf/ded_VirginiaPolyTechnic.pdf

This report basically says that at even high rates - Alamo or propiconizole cannot be found in the tree after 8 months. And it does not move into new wood. (start reading after page 75)

Arbotect has been working very well for most people - we have over 8000 trees on an Arbotect program and experience about a 1% loss over a 3 year period. Some of our local competitors have started using Alamo because it is less expensive, however we have run into a number these sites and the elms are dying within the 3 year period.

I know there are some Alamo proponants out there - but there is no research to suggest longer than 1 year protection. To have success with this, the research that does exist suggests one would need to treat every year.
 

Happyclimbing

New Member
I haven't heard of anything doing anything for EAB... I am wary of people who are trying to find a fix for the unfixable. I think that a lot of people could make a lot of $ on a chemical for EAB, but isn't most of the damage due to disruption of the vascular tissue as a result of the borer creating galleries? I would have thought that if a chemical was going to do something, maybe someone from Detroit would have gotten on that a while ago... A fungicide wouldn't do it because it's the bug, not a systemic fungus like OW and DED. I am interested in real results and not just getting information on whether or not a product is selling as a treatment. I have used alamo and merit and cambistat to do thier thing on Oaks and Elms, but they have a PROVEN positive result and I have witnessed these results. Maybe an insecticide, but what about the toxicity to the applicator and the environment at large? Things that kill bugs often have negative impacts upon human and animal health as well...Not trying to be a killjoy, just thinking here... Will
 

treebing

Well-Known Member
imidacloprid is definitly keeping some ashes around here on artificial life support. If you see a living ash in detroit you know that it has been injected. Your right ti be concerned about the pesticides in the environment. There is posssibly a link between imidacloprid use and bee death. Merit has tv and radio spots here advertising do it yourself soil drenches "its not that we hate insects, we just love trees!"
 
Top