Dead Wood

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by tom_otto, May 4, 2008.

  1. JeffGu

    JeffGu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2014
    Messages:
    3,107
    Location:
    Osceola, Nebraska
    I think this has more to do with things drying out quicker, no?
     
  2. treehumper

    treehumper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2006
    Messages:
    6,359
    Location:
    Ridgefield, NJ
    Wall 4 closing the wound. the compartmentalization will happen behind the deadwood. There's plenty of wood eating critters in water, it's got a lot to do with temperature along with oxygen.
     
  3. KevinS

    KevinS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,496
    Location:
    ontario
    Makes sense nothing is worse than cool and damp actually to hot and damp maybe
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2015
  4. JeffGu

    JeffGu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2014
    Messages:
    3,107
    Location:
    Osceola, Nebraska
    Yeah, lot of stuff goes after trees, especially fruit trees, if they're in constantly damp, humid conditions. They need oxygen at night, but photosynthesis doesn't take place in the wood, so that's not an issue with the dead wood thing.
     
  5. KevinS

    KevinS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,496
    Location:
    ontario
    Right, I was saying deadwood for airflow help
     
  6. RopeShield

    RopeShield Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,425
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    These thoughts I am sharing come from our knowledge of osmosis and diffusion. Movement of material to reach equilibrium. The air and wound closure is well documented. Posted an academic study of it year or two ago here on the buzz. Correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  7. RopeShield

    RopeShield Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,425
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Try to remember deadwood. Zero cellular growth=zero production of photosynthates etc this means less h20 movement.
    Water will still move in deadwood and dissolve compounds. That is my thinking. A constantly super saturated piece of wood. Something entirely different and rarely encountered in trees
     
  8. RopeShield

    RopeShield Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,425
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Should add the importance of water to deposit material. Like the stalagmites in a cave. Compounds that can't move and would be left behind at a wound.
     
    KevinS likes this.
  9. DSMc

    DSMc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2007
    Messages:
    1,491
    Location:
    Montana
    Deep sigh.... wall 4 and the closing of the wound are not the same.
     
  10. RopeShield

    RopeShield Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,425
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Oh yeah, another thing I forgot to mention is the air at the wound starts a new chemical reaction at the newly exposed deadwood ed point. Drying is a physical reaction but there is also a chemical reaction occurring.
     
    aarondconway likes this.
  11. JeffGu

    JeffGu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2014
    Messages:
    3,107
    Location:
    Osceola, Nebraska
    I'm about to start on a chemical reaction, myself. Might even spark some unexpected new growth in dead wood.

    It involves a bottle of rum I found in a kitchen cabinet.
     
  12. KevinS

    KevinS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,496
    Location:
    ontario
    Mmm my favorite. Just remember if you drink rum with breakfast you're not a drunk, you're a pirate.
     
  13. guymayor

    guymayor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    5,568
    Location:
    East US, Earth
    "Also how can a dead limb wick away the trees resources like leaving your faucet running."

    Gotta agree with evo here; as the limb dies it dries, and the vessels shrivel/get plugged so the mechanism for reverse flow is inconceivable to my brain.
    Which is no guarantee that it can't happen. :loco:
     
  14. RopeShield

    RopeShield Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,425
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Water moves through wood in all directions. The material may also move cellularly or even intercellularly as gas
     
  15. JeffGu

    JeffGu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2014
    Messages:
    3,107
    Location:
    Osceola, Nebraska
  16. RopeShield

    RopeShield Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,425
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Resource translocation for removal of a living limb, not a dead limb done in stages is chock full of variables to control. Should really focus this to deadwood as in no active cellular division. Once transpiration is interrupted soon thereafter the flow of material will come to a crawl. Thinking about the pull of material from the roots being redirected or stopped or slowed and the same with the stop or slowing down of photosynthates it really can't matter much at all wether the limb is removed over a given length of time? months yrs? dunno
    Who wants to start the discussion. I have my texts at the ready and Am prepared to one hand them.
    Just going think about this not terms of limb on a tree but more like a seedling, it may make it easier to study/follow flow.
     
  17. treehumper

    treehumper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2006
    Messages:
    6,359
    Location:
    Ridgefield, NJ
    My bad, I really oversimplified things.
     
  18. guymayor

    guymayor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    5,568
    Location:
    East US, Earth
    Perhaps, but the need to draw a sharp division between the 2 seems more academic than practical. Exterior closure, interior closure, both parts of the broadly observed process of...

    closure. Seems kinda like strictly demanding that the D in CODIT means Decay, and not Dryness or Dysfunction or Damage. Or am I missing some essential detail?
    Deep inhalation... :)
     
    jmaher and treehumper like this.
  19. DSMc

    DSMc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2007
    Messages:
    1,491
    Location:
    Montana
    I doubt it, more likely just want to argue the point. But what is there to argue? Shigo always separated the two and he is the one that named, Wall 4. They are after all two entirely different processes. Wall 4 does not move once formed. Wound closure will continue to lay down new cells for as long as it takes.
     
  20. treehumper

    treehumper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2006
    Messages:
    6,359
    Location:
    Ridgefield, NJ
    Yes, it is a distinction that may in general and for the layman not mean much but for a discussion such as this needs to be clarified.
     

Share This Page