Can you work srt with just a prussik??

Discussion in 'Stationary Rope Technique-Half the rope, twice the' started by chinoakaphil, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. Brocky

    Brocky Well-Known Member

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    I could be wrong but I think castanea was talking about two connected hitches on one rope? I know I was!
     
  2. Tony

    Tony Well-Known Member

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    Yup, but that is not near as functional.

    Tony
     
  3. Brocky

    Brocky Well-Known Member

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    Not as functional as what? And how do you descend on a single hitch on a single fixed line?
     
  4. Tony

    Tony Well-Known Member

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    Brocky,

    If the line is doubled over a canopy anchor w/ a hitch on each leg, anchored independently, then the system can be configured in other 2:1 (MRS) or 1:1 (SRS). Depends on how many knots you move at one time. This is the functionality I was referring too.

    Two hitches on a single leg of an anchored line could be used for descent or ascent if activated one at a time. This is the basis for a Mitchel climbing system although a Mitchel system typically uses mechanicals.

    Tony
     
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  5. Brocky

    Brocky Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the clarification, I saw Treebing use the two hitches on a moving rope system at a climbing comp a few years back in the AR part.
     
  6. Tony

    Tony Well-Known Member

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    I think AR is one of the best suited scenarios for a double hitch system. Makes picks off much easier. Along with a host of other advantages.

    Tony
     
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  7. TheTreeManJason

    TheTreeManJason New Member

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    The other day I isolated my TIP, sent up a running bowline canopy anchor, tied on my Schwabish and Hitchclimber, threw one of my lanyards over my shoulder to advance the Hitchclimber, ascended with the Velox and foot ascender to the TIP, and switched over to DdRT for work by just throwing a biner on. Left the Rope Wrench and 4SRT chest harness in the gear bag. I loved it and will definitely be doing it again
     
  8. Jem4417

    Jem4417 Well-Known Member

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    How do you feel about ascending on a hitch climber set up connected to your center d ring with no wrench or added friction all in single line formation? I’ve practiced this with success and have seen others but i watched a two year climber whisky throttle to the ground from 25 feet and i know I’ve been close.
     
  9. Tom Dunlap

    Tom Dunlap Administrator

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    I wouldn't recommend using only a hitch...at least today. A cord/hitch combo may come along someday but it isn't here today
     
  10. Brocky

    Brocky Well-Known Member

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    I disagree, the Oval VT works just like a hitch on DdRT. There isn't a sudden release like other hitches. And the amount of grab is adjustable by the placement of the overhand knot.
     
  11. moss

    moss Well-Known Member

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    Just so people know, since I weigh 132 lbs without gear on, I can report that every hitch I've ever tried will bind up on descent SRT. Body weight makes a difference in multicender performance but being a lightweight does not stop hitches from binding up tight. Yes there is probably some magic formula with some super fat hitch cord and just the right line that it would sort of work but... it has to work right, consistently, every time, within a reasonable functional range and reasonably efficient use (installation, climb speed etc.) or there's no point.
    -AJ
     
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  12. Brocky

    Brocky Well-Known Member

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    These are different cords and ropes using the OvalVT
    IMG_1318.JPG IMG_1462.JPG IMG_1463.JPG
    The first is Bailout on True Blue, the second is 6mm on 9mm for a lanyard, and the third, my 9mm climb line with a 8mm cord. All function the same. Beeline or dyneema core cords don't seem to work from my trials.
     
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  13. TheTreeManJason

    TheTreeManJason New Member

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    Why was he grabbing the hitch while ascending?

    Do you mean just ascent, or working?
     
  14. Tom Dunlap

    Tom Dunlap Administrator

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    Jason


    My goal for SRT has always been to find s two way system with no changeover. Who thinks that during ascent you won't need to descend? Think of a bee or hornet retreat

    I'll drink cheap coffee in order to budget for a multicender

    I like how the Oval VT looks in the pictures. If this solution works on a wide variety of ropes and hitch cords it has merit. After spending a year trying to find a hitch and rope combo that would ascend and release I came to the conclusion that a ring or biner would
    Need to be incorporated into the hitch to smooth out
    The grab/release. But...Morgan came on the scene with the Unicender so I abandoned my hitch experiments. I would be tickled if the Oval VT warms up the search I left 15 or so years ago
     
  15. TheTreeManJason

    TheTreeManJason New Member

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    Valid point. I've only done the ascend-on-hitch-alone-then-switch-to-DdRT-at-TIP a couple times now, just to do something a little different. I use a Rope Wrench when working SRT. If it's a tree where I'm going to move my tie-in a couple times, I like DdRT, but if it's a high climb and can't put my feet against the trunk, I don't feel like humping it all the way up so I'll ascend SRT. Only downside is I don't like my Wrench dangling from my Caritool after the switch
     
  16. moss

    moss Well-Known Member

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    That's is for real deep sacrifice, yes!
    -AJ
     
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  17. moss

    moss Well-Known Member

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    That's pretty cool! How's the drag on ascent, climbing line drop through ok?
    -AJ
     
  18. Brocky

    Brocky Well-Known Member

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    The overhand knot acts like a pulley with slightly more drag. I connect my neck tender to the legs and the knot pushes up the wraps. It one hand tends on the lanyard also. Adding a pulley doesn't work because it forces the oval carabiner out of position. It eliminates the need for a pulley, and if you look close at the two in the tree pictures, I've also eliminated two carabiners by using a soft shackle type connection on the hitch cords instead of eyes.
     
  19. theatertech87

    theatertech87 Member

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    I'm curious about how you're tying that, if it's an extra long piece of cord if it works better or worse with different prussik cord or carabineer combinations
     
  20. Brocky

    Brocky Well-Known Member

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    The hitch is basically a 4-2 VT with the second braid being an overhand knot, and an oval carabiner added, aluminum or steel work the same.
    IMG_1473.JPG

    First, do the four wraps, or round turns and the braid in front. You can add the carabiner now, or if it's a ring it has to be now.
    Second, turn the hitch 180 degrees, bring the ends together and make sure they are the same length.
    Third, tie the overhand. To tie it, the eye legs have to be flexible and compact to end up with a short hitch. Tied eyes will need a large loop for them to go through resulting in longer legs. Spliced eyes would also have to be longer because they don't bend for a few inches, again resulting in a longer hitch. Sewn eyes,or tying the eyes after the hitch make a shorter hitch.
    Insert the carabiner in the front braid and bring the eyes to the front through the carabiner, and clip as usual to your harness.

    The position of the overhand determines how much friction for the hitch to function. If it's lower, it will slide easier but not grab as reliably. Higher up, closer to the wraps, it will grab each time, but requires more effort to move. I have found that the hitch needs to be a little tight at first, as the overhand knot will tighten more with use and lengthen slightly.

    The Bailout, with sewn eyes, on half inch rope needs to be 36" to tie the overhand.

    The soft shackle hitch cord doesn't have this problem as it is flexible and can make a very short connection without a carabiner.
     

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