Can you work srt with just a prussik??

#21
There are a few friction hitches that work by themselves that work similar to hitches on DdRT. As stated earlier, if you have to descend in a hurry you will need some thing else to help because the cord would glaze. But for work positioning and slow descends they work great. I've been climbing with one for a few years and have only glazed one cord. I recently got a Wrench so I could use other hitches and with the limited use on it so far, I prefer the hitch only option. It releases easier and is more compact.

Tim, I think ghostice is referring to using the ring as a stitch plate, put a bight of rope through the ring and clip it. It works similar to a tubular belay device.
What hitches are you referring to? I'm thinking if easing into SRT but WOW $$$$. To fully get into it I still need a friction device $160, a foot ascender $50, and a different climbing rope +$130. Since I'm only 160lb a SRT ascend/descend hitch would help till I can buy more gear.

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rope-a-dope

Well-Known Member
#22
All this talk about ascenders and bungees and pulleys and chesties and special rope is not really beginner talk. The foot ascender is really the most expeansive thing you are going to want.
Hitches can be tied with longer pieces of cord in order to produce enough friction to work on a single line, but that is experimental. The munter can be used for descending srt in combo with a normal hitch.
The CMI glide pulley can be made into a rope wrench with the addition of a rope wrench slic pin.
http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=763
You just have to move the sheave and add a tether with some accessory cordage and creative problem solving. Mine is on the bottom shown with a zk2.
20161013_175303.jpg
Easing into srt is probably going to involve switching over to drt once you get up there so you can stay comfy climbing with familiar technique. So really you can start with all the old stuff just different techniques.
 
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#23
Thank you rope-a-dope. I wasn't sure how to ease into it. My brother was my tree climbing go to expert but he's moving off and has zero srt experience. I wasn't sure it was ok to climb srt on a 12 stand arbor plex.

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Z'sTrees

Well-Known Member
#24
12 strand is gonna be a rubber band on a single leg, also ascenders and mechanical hardware aren't gonna run very well on it. Double braid 11.5-12mm is a great all around rope. I prefer the all polyester yale 11.7's (ie blue moon or poison ivy).
The cmi pulley rope wrench is pretty cool, guy I work with showed it to me the other day. Just have to remember the becket is not rated, which is fine in that configuration but not if you use it like a rigging wrench.

Edit: actually the becket is rated, good to go.
 
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Muggs

Well-Known Member
#25
There was a fella a few years back climbing on 5/8" line with a 1/2" prussik cord. He said it worked well, I've never tried it though.
That was me, I climbed on a 5/8" rope for most of 2012 with just a 1/2" hitch cord and nothing else. It didn't bind up at all. I was thinking recently about going back to that setup, I really loved it. I ascended by footlocking the single leg of 5/8" (which is actually way easier than footlocking two legs of 1/2" in my opinion) and then worked the tree with just the rope and prusik. I call it my summer of extreme minimalism. Not for everybody, that's for sure, but interesting...
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
#26
Check out the Experimental SRT thread for @castanea 's Synergy X hitch, and the Friction Hitch Questions in the Climber's forum for hitch that I came up with. Welcome any questions you might have.

Also instead of buying a foot ascender you could use the single foot footlock. It's some work to manage but you already have the gear you need!
 
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Tony

Well-Known Member
#27
Don't over complicate. Go back to the beginning.

http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/feight-revolver.11030/

It it just me or are some of us so busy looking for the "newest" we forget/disregard the basics? I apply this statement widely to climbers, climbing tools and techniques in general.

I am fine with new climbers starting on SRT, but to have no inkling of the past and trying to recreate it, mistakes and all, seems silly.

Tony
 

Tony

Well-Known Member
#28
All this talk about ascenders and bungees and pulleys and chesties and special rope is not really beginner talk. The foot ascender is really the most expeansive thing you are going to want.
Hitches can be tied with longer pieces of cord in order to produce enough friction to work on a single line, but that is experimental. The munter can be used for descending srt in combo with a normal hitch.
The CMI glide pulley can be made into a rope wrench with the addition of a rope wrench slic pin.
http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=763
You just have to move the sheave and add a tether with some accessory cordage and creative problem solving. Mine is on the bottom shown with a zk2.
View attachment 46298
Easing into srt is probably going to involve switching over to drt once you get up there so you can stay comfy climbing with familiar technique. So really you can start with all the old stuff just different techniques.
Rope-a-dope, I would question both those set ups. On the wrench, it does not appear as if there is enough distance between to top of the knot and the bottom of the wrench to prevent conflict . Will the wrench flop past horizontal on that tether? If so, you are exaggerating the issue.

On the lower set up the pulley is not fit for purpose at all. That short tether looks like it will act as a reverse slack tender. Or what we call here a hitch hammer.

Perhaps I am mistaken, but they both appear to be "funny" at first glance

Tony
 
#29
12 strand is gonna be a rubber band on a single leg, also ascenders and mechanical hardware aren't gonna run very well on it. Double braid 11.5-12mm is a great all around rope. I prefer the all polyester yale 11.7's (ie blue moon or poison ivy).
The cmi pulley rope wrench is pretty cool, guy I work with showed it to me the other day. Just have to remember the becket is not rated, which is fine in that configuration but not if you use it like a rigging wrench.

Edit: actually the becket is rated, good to go.
Z's Trees, in the past month or so I've been studying and playing with SRT with maybe 12 ft anchor point and climbing 3-4 ft off the ground, but TODAY I tried with an anchor at 40 ft and climbing 10 ft up. Wow! I didn't understand your rubber band comment about my arborplex 12 strand until today. I'm still going to keep trying to see what techniques will work for me on a budget. But when I do buy a new rope, is there a rope that works good SRT and DRT using natural crotches. Or do I need to use a friction saver?

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Z'sTrees

Well-Known Member
#30
Yale 11.7 (I.e. bluemoon, wtc) is great srt and is durable enough for some natural crotch ddrt. If you're gonna double rope alot why not use a friction saver?
 
#31
You make a good point about the friction saver. I want to eventually move toward working off of SRT but for now I'm just gunna try to move toward ascending SRT and working/descending DRT.

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Z'sTrees

Well-Known Member
#32
That's a good plan. Once you start working off srt you'll love it. It takes some getting used to but once you can literally wrap yourself around the tree with no added friction you'll be hooked
 

rope-a-dope

Well-Known Member
#33
Yea Tony they are funny! I made both tethers to be as short as possible without interfering with the hitch. The wrench engages right above the top coil as descent begins and disengages without sitting on the hitch. I tested them both a lot and like the wrench to be that close so that when going out sideways I can grab the wrench and "hammer" the hitch down to prevent the wrench from adding too much friction.
You're right about the pulley. Unintended usage caveat should come first. But it works beautifully and it has been said before about the many iterations of wrenches: their purpose is merely to add friction as the hitch is responsible for fall protection. Not life rated is the short phrase!
 

Tony

Well-Known Member
#34
Yea Tony they are funny! I made both tethers to be as short as possible without interfering with the hitch. The wrench engages right above the top coil as descent begins and disengages without sitting on the hitch. I tested them both a lot and like the wrench to be that close so that when going out sideways I can grab the wrench and "hammer" the hitch down to prevent the wrench from adding too much friction.
You're right about the pulley. Unintended usage caveat should come first. But it works beautifully and it has been said before about the many iterations of wrenches: their purpose is merely to add friction as the hitch is responsible for fall protection. Not life rated is the short phrase!

Fair enough. A 2" distance is preferable and highly recommended as distance between hitch and wrench. Be careful. A properly adjusted system is crucial for all climbing systems from tauntline MRS to Rope Wrench SRS. The recommendations alow us to learn from others' mistakes as opposed to our own.

I understand the point that the wrench is not life support. However, expecting the best and planning for the worst will never fail you. Also don't assume that the wrench and hitch split the load 50/50. Many variables and it is rarely the case. My informal testing shoed me the hitch can in fact be secondary to the friction device above.

I am all for DIY, but when it comes to climbing gear we depend on for life support, compromising safety and reliability for $$ is making a hazardous activity dangerous.

Tony
 
#35
The only issue that I know of when doing this is the very real possibility that the rope and hitch cord will glaze badly in the event that you slip.

For me, personally, the Distel hitch is the most reliable hitch, so that's what I used. Of course, it's not as fun to drag up the rope as a VT, but it's not as finicky and always grabs for me within a few inches. Believe me, I slipped enough times to appreciate such nuances. It's a very nice, middle of the road kind of hitch that isn't too terrible on ascent, but grabs very quickly. The VT offers a lot less drag on ascent, though. Unfortunetly, I use too many different ropes and hitch cords to be able to tie it reliably and quickly.
https://sterlingrope.com/logbook/117-friction-hitch-cord-testing-data

Someone needs to do way more testing like this, but you can see how some of those hitches went 40" down the rope before catching, and on Tech11 even actually hit the ground.


Also, I had been wondering if you could tie a double blakes hitch that equalizes between the two knots. Imagine having a split tail but instead it just loops around your biner and then you tie a second with that tail. Never tried it but was amused by the idea.
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
#36
I've tried the twin hitches, you're right about there having to be a loop between them so that both hitches receive the load at the same time and, hopefully, equally. You can do double eye hitches also. If I remember right, it was hard to descend because you had to work both hitches at the same time with equal amounts of pressure.
 
#37
https://sterlingrope.com/logbook/117-friction-hitch-cord-testing-data

Someone needs to do way more testing like this, but you can see how some of those hitches went 40" down the rope before catching, and on Tech11 even actually hit the ground.


Also, I had been wondering if you could tie a double blakes hitch that equalizes between the two knots. Imagine having a split tail but instead it just loops around your biner and then you tie a second with that tail. Never tried it but was amused by the idea.
WOW! I just switched from the Blake's to the Distel. I tried the VT but didn't like it. I might have to try again. I really thought the Distel caught better than the VT.

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Brocky

Well-Known Member
#38
How the VT functions depends on the number of wraps, braids, and the length of the eyes. It's best to use tied eyes to dial in a properly functioning VT. You can't always force a spliced or sewn hitch cord to work with their fixed lengths.
 

Tony

Well-Known Member
#40
I've tried the twin hitches, you're right about there having to be a loop between them so that both hitches receive the load at the same time and, hopefully, equally. You can do double eye hitches also. If I remember right, it was hard to descend because you had to work both hitches at the same time with equal amounts of pressure.
If both hitches are anchored independently to your bridge you can descend on just one. Make sure you got enough rope!
 
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