cambistat

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The trunk injection is invasive and causes a wound where as the basal drench does not. How much of a wound is created by trunk injection is unclear. It seems everyone has an opinion but there is a lack of scientific research data. There is also the equipment cost difference between an injection system and the basal drench. For Cambistat the basal drench has worked well for me.

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With the Wedgle system, wounding is minimal.
A small bark core is removed and a plastic chek is inserted only to the outer layer of xylem.
The injection is made at that site through the chek.
The chek seals after the needle is removed preventing air from getting into the tree's vascular system.
The plastic cheks pop out after a couple weeks.
It's got a present chemical release you can adjust.
You control the pressure.
You can apply anytime of day in any weather.
The bottles are self sealing so there is NO contact.
All that for under $600, <$750 for the complete forestry unit.

It sounds pretty good to me. I'm still not sure how the chemicals compare, though.

PS. your last 2 pictures of the planetree were identical.
 

Marc_H

New Member
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With the Wedgle system, wounding is minimal.
A small bark core is removed and a plastic chek is inserted only to the outer layer of xylem.
The injection is made at that site through the chek.
The chek seals after the needle is removed preventing air from getting into the tree's vascular system.
The plastic cheks pop out after a couple weeks.

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There is a lot of debate about the bark seperation that occurs when using this system. The injection process forms a buble under the bark that some people claim is more than minimal wounding. I have been looking at the Wedgle, Arborjet and all the other methods of injection for about three or four years now and can't seem to find any proof to support what many of the manufactures claim about the other guy's product. I love the idea of the Wedgle and the research I have read about the chemicals shows they are effective.

If you or anyone knows of a study relating to the wounding caused by various injection methods I would love to see it.

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PS. your last 2 pictures of the planetree were identical.

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thanks, I put the right picture up
 
Cool. Keep us up to date. I don't like the idea of wounding trees but I like the idea of contaminated ground water and potential health hazards even less.
 

trees4est

Member
I did see a presentation somewhere that someone gave where they did dissections of trees after different injection techniques. The Wedgle by far created the largest wounds, at least in his limited sample.
 

Chum

New Member
Nobody ever mentions the porosity of the wood...which species are more acceptable to a dose and which ones won't take so much as a fraction of a microgram in relation to direct injection.
 

TProsser

New Member
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Cool. I don't like the idea of wounding trees but I like the idea of contaminated ground water and potential health hazards even less.

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I've been reading this thread for a few weeks and I just need to clear up something. First, Cambistat does not move in the soil very far. It ties up in the cat ions. In the Soil tests - .3% moved 12 inches after 12 inches of water was flushed on it. This is why it is allowed to be used this way. The EPA is very strict about this. To infer that it contaminates ground water is not fair.

Regarding the wedgle - Show me some peer reviewed research that shows it has efficacy. Just 1 study. I looked into this and talked to 2 researchers who had been working with it. They said it did not work and both felt that the wounding was a large negative factor.

Regarding wounding - The worst problem is not the actual puncture hole - it is the solvent that is used to carry the material. It is similar to gasoline or turpentine. Very toxic. This is why the wedgle creates quarter sized dieback areas. Check out the photos I attached
 

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Marc_H

New Member
Great photos. I have heard of the damage but have never seen it. Do you have any more info on what was being injected and how long before the photos was the injection done? From all the acorns I am guessing it is an oak due you know what species?
 

Chum

New Member
Thanks for clarifying that Tom. One easy way short of academic generated confusion is to just cut down an injected tree and look at the trauma surrounding the injection sites, either side to 1.5 inches or more. Necrotic tissue, a perfect court to invite rotting organisms.

I try to inspire people to look at what it is they do, observe closely any noticable changes. It often doesn't take the studies to understand if we're helping or hindering an organism.
 
Wow! Incredible pictures. And I for one appreciate the information. I know we can't depend on the salesmen and brochures of products but sometimes that's all we have.

As for groundwater contamination, I certainly did not mean to imply that Cambistat alone is a cause, but there's not a lot of information out there on its environmental effects. It is listed as a question mark on the chemical sites I researched. So, thanks for speaking up and setting me straight.
 

TProsser

New Member
Mrs Morning - No offence taken - it is wise to be concerned about groundwater. The tree is an oak of some kind in the Kansas City Area. I have others if you would like to see them. Not sure what was being injected, but I do know this kind of injury with this device is common because the material is placed right next to the cambium (which are the only cells that actually divide on the trunk) with no place to go, which is the reason it apparently causes more injury then drilled injections (where the material is moved away). Since injections will be with us- the water based highly diluted treatments are best since injury rarely spreads past the holes. (although any treatment that can be done with out injections in my opinion are best).
 

TProsser

New Member
I beleive this is 3 years after treatment, but it could be two years. Not sure. The bark looks like a pin Oak - but not sure. Most of what was injected was a solvent of some kind with a small percent of active ingredient. That is what did the damage. Not sure what the tree was being treated for.
 

Marc_H

New Member
Thanks for the info. I have a few pin oaks that I have been debating about doing a Verdur/ Cambistat combo on but have been reluctant due to the injection wounds. So far I have not had any problems with the Elms I have had injected with Arbortec or even Alamo.
 

TProsser

New Member
The Verdur treatment is water based. While any wounding is bad, at least there are no solvents in this process. Use about a gallon of water with the mix. This way you won't get dieback around the wounds.
 

Marc_H

New Member
Thanks Tom.

By the way I enjoyed your talks yesterday. If I had realized before you were the same person I would have said hi. I am a little bumbed that so many people know about Cambistat now, I had planned on making a killing with it with little if any compitition. My supplier said people have been asking about a lot.
 

TProsser

New Member
It is being used by some, but not as much as you might think. I recommend coming up with your own marketing name for the process to differentiate yourself. I have some ideas and won't say them here, But you can call me and we can talk. Denver is behind many areas of the country in using this, yet I think it one of the best places because of the unnatural conditions that cause so much tree stress - especially how dry it is. Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate positive feedback.
 

Mangoes

Well-Known Member
What is Cambi's status North of the border. It isn't a pesticide product so I might presume it may be available.
 

TProsser

New Member
It is registered by the EPA so it does require governmental regulation. We are considering registering in Canada, but are concerned that the costs are too great for that market size.

Time will tell - sorry
 

Mangoes

Well-Known Member
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We are considering registering in Canada, but are concerned that the costs are too great for that market size.


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Not a new dilemma.
 
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