bio chain oil

treebear

Member
Hi
Just curious, do any of you guys use bio chain oil. I remember a thread a couple of years ago in the ISA webboard where all kinds of oil were in use on chains, even used engine oil.
Svein
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Administrator
After a lot of research I decided to start using canola oil straight from Costco. Cheaper than saw-brand bio oil and I didn't see any wear or heating problems. It smells like popcorn too :)

For a while I used old motor oil but quit because the smell was really awful and I got tired of the nasty mess. It worked well. I have heard that it's hard on the o-rings and gaskets in the oil pumps. Never seemed to be an issue for me. When I ran the numbers out on the cost savings it made good sense.

There are some pretty extensive threads on AS about bio oil. Feel free to go look them up as long as you promise to come back here :)
 

Treebeard

Member
wow awesome....what is the saw-brand bio oil made from? who makes it? now only if there was a diesel chaisaw? i was told that you can find small diesel engines fitted for small rc airplanes, i wondered if they can be engineered/fitted for a chainsaw?
 

Leon

Member
[ QUOTE ]

For a while I used old motor oil but quit because the smell was really awful and I got tired of the nasty mess. It worked well. I have heard that it's hard on the o-rings and gaskets in the oil pumps. Never seemed to be an issue for me. When I ran the numbers out on the cost savings it made good sense.



[/ QUOTE ]


Well, for the first time, I heartily disagree with you Tom. Used motor oil is an all around bad choice for bar and chain lubricant in my opinion. First of all, used motor oil is all burned out so it has lost most of its lubricating properties. That's why you replace it, right?

Secondly, and more importantly, used motor oil is highly carcinogenic and there is no need for anyone to be spraying this stuff all over themselves and the environemt they are working in.

Two thumbs up on the canola oil, though!
 

Leif

New Member
I think, at least I hope, Tom was joking!? /forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Administrator
No, I really did use old motor oil. I realize [now] that the oil is nasty. The lubricating requirements of my motors is much higher than my chainsaws. Besides, if a bar or chain wears out it isn't going to cost near as much as a motor. When I was running a larger crew we tracked how much oil was used in two weeks. Then I sat down and scratched out the costs. As it turns out I could throw out a bar and chain for the Poulan 25s every three weeks or less with the savings. I never saw that the bars/chains were wearing out. The oil pumps on the 25s had problems no matter what went through them.

But I really wonder how much worse it is than fresh oil. There has been some interesting discussion on AS about the volitiles [sp?] and spray. I know that it can't be good. But I wonder how much better canola spray is to breath. My intuition tells me that it's better though.

My conversion to veggie started after my buddy and I cut up a pile of firewood logs. I had the Stihl 066 and he had the Husky 372? We cut solid for an hour. The two of us used a gallon plus of oil. When we were done I realized that most of the oil would be making it's way into the wetlands downhill from where we were cutting. It wasn't much different than pouring most of that oil out on the ground. I realize taht some of the oil would be chewed up by the rougish fungiis in the sawdust and soil but not all.

The canola oil gets a bit thick in the cold. I'd thin it with motor oil, new nowadays :) Never could see the point in using bar oil.
 

treebear

Member
Don´t know the brand Canola but I understand it is bio oil so it should be all right. My firm converted to bio oil many years ago in order to take care of the environment. We use it for what it´s worth in our marketing and have made some scores there. It seems to make sence that we who works with nature (trees or vegetation management) should not pollute. Anyway I guess it, in a worst case scenario, is better to cut yourself with a biodegradable oil lubricated bar than one with worn out engine oil.
Our favourite is Sthil Veg Oil.
Svein
www.hogstogrydding.no
 

didjon

Member
My old man used to use old engine oil for chain lube
But then his 2 stroke mix back in the day used to be a pint of clean engine oil to a gallon of 3 star...

didj
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Administrator
Canola oil comes from the rapeseed flower. The name was developed by the marketing team. Some how Rape Oil doesn't have a good ring to it...
 

Alves

Member
so you use straight canola oil for your bar lubricant, maybe here and there add a little motor oil to thin it if its thick?

very interesting.

By the way Tom, Rich Hauer says Hi.
 

frans

Active Member
I have not heard one word about the importance of viscosity.
Why not? You all are more or less professionals. Did this not occur to you?
I switched to Canola Oil for some time but after talking to different engineers from Husky and Stihl I learned that the oil needs to stay on the chain and bar interface in order to be effective as a lubricant. The whole point is to make the chain slide smoothly over the bar groove and to do the same thing with the links on the chain. Yes Canola oil will work but you may see excessive wear on the bar and chain, as well as increased binding in the chain itself, as well as increased use because it (canola oil) has a lighter viscosity.
I agree with Tom's observation about preserving the environment but strongly disagree with his main point of saving a few pennies as the reason to switch. "Stepping over dollars to pick up pennies" is not a part of my philosophy.

Motor oil has greater amounts of sulphur which I have been told will wear out the seals on the saw faster than bar oil. When I was starting out the only thing we used was cases and cases of Pennzoil 20/50.

In spite of all this I still do use Canola oil when working near fish ponds or sensitive areas.
I also believe it is hard to get good info. when talking to factory reps because, after all, they are on the payroll right?
frans
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Administrator
Good points Frans. For my little operation I was willing to give up a bit of wear to keep the world just a bit cleaner. Actually, I didn't notice much binding or wear but I have no hard data to look at.

You're right. Getting good data is close to impossible. Factory reps understandably have a vested interest in selling the companies goods. If they told us that their research found that store bought canola oil performed at X-level and cost less than their super-whammo juice, they wouldn't be able to justify their pay check. This isn't a criticism, but an observation.
 

Leif

New Member
Treebeard, Stihl makes bio bar and chain oil. I've special ordered some from my Stihl dealer, costs about four times as much as regular. If Tom says canola works, it might be worth a try. Also, I was in Europe a couple years ago and went in a few Stihl shops in England and Germany. They have Stihl bio two-stroke oil there.

Tom, what brand canola or does it matter? Does it sling off the bar a lot more?
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Administrator
For my first experiment I bought a gallon of cheap veggie oil. It seemed to work fine. Then I went to Costco, a warehouse food/goods store and bought the cheapest I could find. I did the cost/gallon to compare to motor oil and bar lube too. Seed squeezings was cheaper.

Viscosity is important. I think that if I were doing more big saw work I might get real veggie bar lube. Since most of my work was pruning with smaller removals the saws never got really hot. Canola does thin out so you have to make your own decision. I opened up the oil flow all the way.

Most people who work around saws can tell how a chain is running by the sound it makes. Even with hearing pro I've always been able to here a rattle from a loose chain or a slight scream from a tight or dry chain. But that's me. This might not be something for the general workforce. I trained my crew to listen for the sound too.
 

glens

New Member
There was an AS thread about a month and a half ago about this very thing. I'd done a little googling and found a place that makes tackifier for veggie oil. They were going to send a sample to Jim Clark (TreeMachine) but the thread has died without a report...
 

Treebeard

Member
if the type of veggie oil is not important, then finding a cheap resource of veggie oil could be right behind you favorite restaraunt...easy to obtain we get 60 gals. using a hand barrel pump in apprx 20min.(2 guys)
 

frans

Active Member
[ QUOTE ]
I'd done a little googling and found a place that makes tackifier for veggie oil.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would be very interested in more information on this. Could you please keep us informed as to how it works out?
Thanks
Frans
 

glens

New Member
The thread at AS seems to have died. I just put some kindling under it. Evidently the company will send out a sample packet of enough to modify a little more than a gallon. Here is their tackifier product page link.

Glen
 
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