Basics of Pruning and Removal for Beginners.

DSMc

Well-Known Member
#86
Personally, I have a problem with teaching basic pruning. Removals are just mechanics, so basics stack well as you advance. Pruning, on the other hand, is dealing with mechanical and biological consequences. So teaching just the pruning basics is akin to showing a surgeon how to remove an organ without giving them the understanding of all the ramifications of doing so.
I understand the desire to give simple answers to complex questions but it is not always a good idea. Life is complicated and those choosing to make a living that alters that force should take the time to learn it all and understand why they are doing what they do.
 
#87
Some of the best training I got was from elderly gardeners pruning their gardens. They have decades of experience, and you can often see complete results in 6 -12 months whereby trees can be years before you see all the consequences of the pruning exercise. You can gather a lot of experience regarding thickness of pruned limbs and the amount of epicormic growth you can expect, and also measure the stress imposed on the plant from various severity's of pruning.

Often aesthetics can correspond to efficient and healthy pruning so you can develop an eye for what's needed quite quickly. For some reason looking up can really complicate this development of the eye needed for pruning. Even walking back far enough to get a good look at the tree and develop a plan can get you yelled at with some crews for wasting time.

I have also found that working as an employee rarely includes training in this area because efficient work, and money making is the name of the game for many, and few companies can afford to teach this. Government crews are often the exception but they aren't under the same efficiency pressure and aesthetics can count for more especially inner city locations.

Around here not many companies train, instead they recruit trained or talented people. So learning in the garden can be a real step forward to get training/skillset you might not otherwise get....
 

JD3000

Well-Known Member
#88
Personally, I have a problem with teaching basic pruning. Removals are just mechanics, so basics stack well as you advance. Pruning, on the other hand, is dealing with mechanical and biological consequences. So teaching just the pruning basics is akin to showing a surgeon how to remove an organ without giving them the understanding of all the ramifications of doing so.
I understand the desire to give simple answers to complex questions but it is not always a good idea. Life is complicated and those choosing to make a living that alters that force should take the time to learn it all and understand why they are doing what they do.
Yes and you start somewhere. Add woody bio to the thread then, that's the point afterall
 

DSMc

Well-Known Member
#89
You know, I have taught several climbers how to remove and prune trees. It took years of hands-on work that allowed explanations of what was being done specifically, at that moment, on that tree, not hypothetically. A written discussion becomes counterproductive when every recommendation has the qualifier, but it depends on...
It is why discussions on tree biomechanics, though interesting, fail in the field. It is not that we lack the knowledge,
it is that the situation is always different and always will be.
 

guymayor

Well-Known Member
#91
Yes and you start somewhere. Add woody bio to the thread then, that's the point afterall
I don't get the point of rolling pruning and removal together. Like surgery and undertaking; not a logical mix.

Yes we gotta start somewhere with pruning, and anatomy and physiology is the place--along with learning to establish the objective. A focus on mechanics is the wrong place to start, and numerical formulae are wrong period.

I spend so much time training cert.arbs to Forget the 1/3 Rule about lateral size (and risk assessors that other 1/3 Rule of Dumb about 'shell wall'). Frankly it's easier to start with a dogma-free, unschooled person.
 

guymayor

Well-Known Member
#94
Gilman doesn't help much either with mature dicots
Some of their work was some help. This one established that reduction was more stabilising than thinning, which can be applied to older trees as well.
Arboriculture & Urban Forestry 2015. 41(1): 3–10

Structural Pruning Effects on Stem and Trunk Strain in Wind

Edward F. Gilman, Jason W. Miesbauer, and F.J. Masters
 

Daniel

Well-Known Member
#96
Saying that all the dangerous situations in tree rigging happen when the pieces get too big is like saying all the dangerous situations with a chainsaw happen when it's running...

Sounds like its coming from academics, NOT the guys out there doing it everyday... This is one industry where the "experts" aren't even close to top everyday performers...
 

Jehinten

Well-Known Member
#97
Not saying that I 100% agree with everything said in the video, but it does help show how setting up your rigging can make changes. I fully agree with what you are getting at, that sometimes it is safer to take a larger piece. But in an ideal situation, with a perfectly healthy tree, rigging a 100 pound limb has less of a chance of negative repercussions than rigging a 2,000 lbs piece. I think that's the point the video is making, with it dealing with the basics. Keep in mind too that the video is designed for people starting out, or still fairly new. When you first put on spurs, you don't have the skillset to try and go big.
 

Daniel

Well-Known Member
#98
While it's clearly the point the video is trying to make, its not in touch wit the real world of tree work. Clearly a perspective from guys that don't know what it's like to spend 6-8 hours in the hooks.. ONE TIME of 8 hours in the hooks and they would have an epiphany!
 
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