Bactericides and Fungicides

Chad Szpunar

New Member
I just got my QS early this year and started implementing IPM into my companies practices. Being on the climb-side for 15 years a lot of it is very new to me, but I am learning a shit load. We have been working with Arbor-Jet and purchased 2 Quik-Jet Airs. Since EAB is in Colorado along with Mountain Pine Beetle, IPS, and Red Turpentine we push the Tree-Age R-10 heavily on clients with Ash Pine/Spruce. The trunk injections seem far more logical to me for wood borers vs. spraying because you once the product is in you eliminate the timing of life cycles, human error, and pesticides into the open environment. The Ima-Jet (Imidacloprid) is an easy sell as well in my opinion. Inject it in the spring to prevent and control all leaf piercers, suckers, chewers, and miners for the season. Once again, logic tells me the injection is a better practice based on the reasons listed above.

Where I am struggling is with bacteria's and fungus's. Fire Blight is wide-spread in the area along with numerous fungus's affecting Pear, Aspen, Oak, ect. Working with the Arbor-Jet sales guys and a couple of other local arborists the go-to for prescription is Growth Regulator, Growth Regulator, Growth Regulator. However, Arbor-Jet sells an inject-able fungicide (Phospho-Jet) and bactericide (Arbor-OTC), but they are rarely mentioned as a prescription. I'm curious why!

Question: If an Ash for example has anthracnose would a suitable prescription be to apply the growth regulator (which will put the tree essentially in a coma for 3 years) and in conjunction inject the fungicide (Phospho-Jet) annually for that 3 year period? Has anyone had success suppressing and eradicating fungal issues using this method? Same would go for Fire Blight, any success?

The last thing I want to do is prescribe treatment to my clients that offer no benefits.

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.
 

TCtreeswinger

Well-Known Member
Anthracnose wont kill an otherwise healthy tree. Drilling a tree yearly is gonna become problematic i dont care what sales reps say. The fungicidal properties of growth regulator come from the boosted vitality of fine root mass as far as i can gather (attended a class by creator of paclobutrazol and he didnt even have a definitive answer). Are you advocating cultural practices? Thin that ash before jumping to treatment? Mulch, water etc. Foliar sprays work quite well for many leaf diseases.
 

ATH

Well-Known Member
Fire blight is a tough one. Once it is in the tree, it is there. You are just trying to maintain tree health. I've had fair success with TGR. I've also seen bark spray with Reliant and Pentrabark help as much as injected PhosphoJet. If it is a tree you can spray, early treatments with copper based products can help. If you catch it early, sanitation pruning is good...but I usually get the call when the entire tree is engulfed and there wouldn't be much left if we tried that. Ultimately, pear are tough trees and I don't see a lot of trees die from fireblight. Of course, I have an admitted biased against pear, so I don't cry when they do. But I also have clients who highly value their trees, so I do what I can to help them...telling them all along we aren't curing the tree, but helping it thrive.

In my opinion, I'd rather soil apply imidacloprid than inject it. No need to wound the tree every year when soil applications work just as well. Obviously there are exceptions when a soil application isn't a good idea (adjacent to water, not enough soil, etc...). Injections work great, but wounding the tree every year does not...especially if it is a slow growing tree. It is one tool. There are others. There is plenty of room for human error with injections too, so the answer is proper training.

One more thought: what you are describing isn't IPM. For example injecting just in case some piercing sucking insect may come along doesn't fit that model. Neither does treating for inconsequential pests (ash anthracnose).
 

JD3000

Most well-known member
I've injected for EAB and then propiconazole immediately after for ash anthracnose with good results.

Antibiotics/antimicrobials and fungicides are preventative only for the most part.

Drilling cant harm trees dont assume it's a magic bullet.
 

Chad Szpunar

New Member
Fire blight is a tough one. Once it is in the tree, it is there. You are just trying to maintain tree health. I've had fair success with TGR. I've also seen bark spray with Reliant and Pentrabark help as much as injected PhosphoJet. If it is a tree you can spray, early treatments with copper based products can help. If you catch it early, sanitation pruning is good...but I usually get the call when the entire tree is engulfed and there wouldn't be much left if we tried that. Ultimately, pear are tough trees and I don't see a lot of trees die from fireblight. Of course, I have an admitted biased against pear, so I don't cry when they do. But I also have clients who highly value their trees, so I do what I can to help them...telling them all along we aren't curing the tree, but helping it thrive.

In my opinion, I'd rather soil apply imidacloprid than inject it. No need to wound the tree every year when soil applications work just as well. Obviously there are exceptions when a soil application isn't a good idea (adjacent to water, not enough soil, etc...). Injections work great, but wounding the tree every year does not...especially if it is a slow growing tree. It is one tool. There are others. There is plenty of room for human error with injections too, so the answer is proper training.

One more thought: what you are describing isn't IPM. For example injecting just in case some piercing sucking insect may come along doesn't fit that model. Neither does treating for inconsequential pests (ash anthracnose).
Thanks for the response! Being that it’s our first season we are learning as we go. Like you said, typically we’re not getting a call until pests are already present. We have a lot to learn! Do you have any recommend webinars, books, lectures, etc that would be beneficial? Because your right...the last thing we want to do it hurt trees or sell something that is not going to work, just to make a buck.
 

Chad Szpunar

New Member
I've injected for EAB and then propiconazole immediately after for ash anthracnose with good results.

Antibiotics/antimicrobials and fungicides are preventative only for the most part.

Drilling cant harm trees dont assume it's a magic bullet.
Thanks for the response! The Blight and Canker in Aspens is so widespread south of Denver that preventative applications are tough to come by. I’ve found it difficult to sell treatment plans for both if the tree is not showing signs or symptoms. That’s where I’m struggling. Do I even bother selling treatment plans once the infection is in, or do we just start basil pruning?
 

Chad Szpunar

New Member
Anthracnose wont kill an otherwise healthy tree. Drilling a tree yearly is gonna become problematic i dont care what sales reps say. The fungicidal properties of growth regulator come from the boosted vitality of fine root mass as far as i can gather (attended a class by creator of paclobutrazol and he didnt even have a definitive answer). Are you advocating cultural practices? Thin that ash before jumping to treatment? Mulch, water etc. Foliar sprays work quite well for many leaf diseases.
Thanks for the response!
 

ATH

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the response! Being that it’s our first season we are learning as we go. Like you said, typically we’re not getting a call until pests are already present. We have a lot to learn! Do you have any recommend webinars, books, lectures, etc that would be beneficial? Because your right...the last thing we want to do it hurt trees or sell something that is not going to work, just to make a buck.
ISA has some good podcasts.

I know you are in CO, but the Buckeye Yard and Garden Line often has good primers for many pests. @JD3000 has done the Ohio Nursery and Landscape Assn. plant health newsletter for the last few years. I've been helping this year. It does cost, but hopefully worth it! (Come to think of it...why does it cost? Do I get a cut? LOL)

I use a lot of Extension publications from all over....find a problem and start reading. Lots of good books. Do you have the Sinclair/Lyons/Johnson big books on insects and diseases? I don't use them a bunch, but they are a big help when I need ID help.

There is a thread somewhere listing a bunch of resources. Don't remember what it was called - didn't find it in a quick search. Somebody else will recall...
 
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Nish

Well-Known Member
I've injected for EAB and then propiconazole immediately after for ash anthracnose with good results.

Antibiotics/antimicrobials and fungicides are preventative only for the most part.

Drilling cant harm trees dont assume it's a magic bullet.
JD, would it not work to mix the propiconizale with the emamectin benzoate solution and inject both at once? Some of our clients have ash trees that defoliate once from ash anthracnose ever year, and so if we're planning to inject for EAB, should/could we suggest the simultaneous fungicide supplement?
 

JD3000

Most well-known member
Also I dont think Propi has ash anthracnose on the label but it worked for me.

FYI and CYA.
 

JD3000

Most well-known member
ISA has some good podcasts.

I know you are in CO, but the Buckeye Yard and Garden Line often has good primers for many pests. @JD3000 has done the Ohio Nursery and Landscape Assn. plant health newsletter for the last few years. I've been helping this year. It does cost, but hopefully worth it! (Come to think of it...why does it cost? Do I get a cut? LOL)

I use a lot of Extension publications from all over....find a problem and start reading. Lots of good books. Do you have the Sinclair/Lyons/Johnson big books on insects and diseases? I don't use them a bunch, but they are a big help when I need ID help.

There is a thread somewhere listing a bunch of resources. Don't remember what it was called - didn't find it in a quick search. Somebody else will recall...
Professional Reference Resources is the thread he is referring to. Hasn't been updated in a minute though...
 

Johnny Turvin

New Member
The debate will rage on forever concerning drilling trees to inject a systemic when no signs or symptoms are evident. And the person who pointed out that preventative systemic treatments do not constitute IPM is correct. Ideally, an Arborist should not be treating a condition which does not yet exist, but there are acceptable exceptions. If a disease or vector has shown up in a geographic area there is reason to believe every susceptible tree in that area is threatened. But still not every tree is a candidate for treatment, and certainly not for injection. This is where the Arborist and the customer have to be in communication about tree values and customer desires. Education of tree owners is still our biggest challenge. Our second biggest challenge is demonstration that our recommended strategies actually work.

Professional and ethical consultation mandates that we consider the entire site and secondary impacts in our recommendations. For me this requires a "from the ground up" approach. I am a firm believer that it all begins with the health of the rhizosphere. I cannot understand how any Arborist recommends any treatment (including fertilization) without first sampling soil and assessing root system health.

From there I work my way up the tree. Being TRAQ qualified helps immensely in my consideration of the tree as a (perhaps very big) part of an overall site, and to consider mitigation techniques which can benefit future treatments. I also have to be conscious that a tree on the site I am evaluating might eventually function as a host site for vectors or diseases which might then threaten other trees on other properties in the immediate area. These concerns should be communicated to customers also. I personally have to maintain the attitude that there are no "magic bullets" or even "quick fixes" in dealing with tree health challenges. Any responsible treatment/mitigation strategy should be multi-year/season in its scope. It should also consider the entire array of methods and tools we have to implement our strategies.

I like Arborjet a lot. I recommend it when it is appropriate. But it is not my go-to method. Actually, beyond soil sampling, I don't have a "go-to" method. Everything is considered before a recommendation is made. Anything less is irresponsible.
 

Chaplain242

Well-Known Member
The debate will rage on forever concerning drilling trees to inject a systemic when no signs or symptoms are evident. And the person who pointed out that preventative systemic treatments do not constitute IPM is correct. Ideally, an Arborist should not be treating a condition which does not yet exist, but there are acceptable exceptions. If a disease or vector has shown up in a geographic area there is reason to believe every susceptible tree in that area is threatened. But still not every tree is a candidate for treatment, and certainly not for injection. This is where the Arborist and the customer have to be in communication about tree values and customer desires. Education of tree owners is still our biggest challenge. Our second biggest challenge is demonstration that our recommended strategies actually work.

Professional and ethical consultation mandates that we consider the entire site and secondary impacts in our recommendations. For me this requires a "from the ground up" approach. I am a firm believer that it all begins with the health of the rhizosphere. I cannot understand how any Arborist recommends any treatment (including fertilization) without first sampling soil and assessing root system health.

From there I work my way up the tree. Being TRAQ qualified helps immensely in my consideration of the tree as a (perhaps very big) part of an overall site, and to consider mitigation techniques which can benefit future treatments. I also have to be conscious that a tree on the site I am evaluating might eventually function as a host site for vectors or diseases which might then threaten other trees on other properties in the immediate area. These concerns should be communicated to customers also. I personally have to maintain the attitude that there are no "magic bullets" or even "quick fixes" in dealing with tree health challenges. Any responsible treatment/mitigation strategy should be multi-year/season in its scope. It should also consider the entire array of methods and tools we have to implement our strategies.

I like Arborjet a lot. I recommend it when it is appropriate. But it is not my go-to method. Actually, beyond soil sampling, I don't have a "go-to" method. Everything is considered
before a recommendation is made. Anything less is irresponsible.
I still see injection equivalent to lancing or amputation in human medicine. Can benefit but are the costs worth it if not absolutely necessary?
 
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ATH

Well-Known Member
I still see injection equivalent to lancing or amputation in human medicine. Can benefit but are the costs worth it if not absolutely necessary?
Couldn't the same be said of anything that penetrates any of the CODIT walls? Pruning. Bracing. Invasive cables. Removing girdling roots.

We should always be weighing injury vs. benefit.
 

ATH

Well-Known Member
Injection for eab is necessary and 99% effective when done right and with the correct rate. I think in that instance injection is legit
Soil-applied imidacloprid is also very effective. I use both...and have had good success with both. Just wanted to qualify the "necessary" part. Because there are few remaining untreated ash in this area (therefore fewer EAB to attack), I'm thinking about going to all soil treatments to stop drilling trees. Haven't gone there yet, but it is a strong consideration.
 

Acerxharlowii

Active Member
Soil-applied imidacloprid is also very effective. I use both...and have had good success with both. Just wanted to qualify the "necessary" part. Because there are few remaining untreated ash in this area (therefore fewer EAB to attack), I'm thinking about going to all soil treatments to stop drilling trees. Haven't gone there yet, but it is a strong consideration.
We never really had great effectiveness with soil treatments. Definitely more successful with iq infuser injections
 
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ATH

Well-Known Member
Did you put it within 6" of the base and use maximum labeled rate? I've been surprised how well it has worked on some trees that the owners didn't want to spend Tree-age money for, but wanted to do something.

Certainly more canopy dieback than Tree-age, but still less than 10-15% after several years through the worst of it (started here in 2006/2007).
 

Acerxharlowii

Active Member
Did you put it within 6" of the base and use maximum labeled rate? I've been surprised how well it has worked on some trees that the owners didn't want to spend Tree-age money for, but wanted to do something.

Certainly more canopy dieback than Tree-age, but still less than 10-15% after several years through the worst of it (started here in 2006/2007).
I assume so. We were doing drenches and soil injections before I arrived and have been doing iq infuser work since I’ve been there. Eab hit really bad in se Wisconsin about 4-5 years ago. Now if you’re not treating you will for sure lose your tree
 
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