Ascent Event from 2015 on?

Discussion in 'Rules and Regs' started by Tree Access, Mar 15, 2014.

  1. Tree Access

    Tree Access Member

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    I heard the Ascent Event may replace the Footlock Event from 2015 on.
    Some of you guys here know probably better, is that true?
    I guess that will be something to discuss... [​IMG]

    Did many Chapters in the US run the Ascent Event for getting used to it already, and what have been the experiences so far?
    We want to try it in Austria this Year to be prepared for best Year, but I bet there will be a lot of confusion...
     
  2. MooseHead

    MooseHead Active Member

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    It works very well in the Charlotte comp as well as the geezers comp. I personally would be all for it seeing as how I don't like footlocking.
     
  3. treewill

    treewill Active Member

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    No idea; 2014 proposed changes say nothing about it. We have had open ascent events at a few of the regional comps in the PNW chapter, but no idea if this will be accepted as a new standard.

    I would welcome the change as well. The only negative feedback I've heard when open ascent events were held at regionals was that no one knew to expect that in advance.
     
  4. Kathy_Holzer

    Kathy_Holzer Active Member

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    open ascent event is in the mix, but not for 2014. the rules committee has been discussing possibly moving foot lock out of the preliminary events and making it an exhibition event (like head to head foot lock currently at ITCC), to be replaced with an open ascent event. IN THE MIX, not here yet..
     
  5. Tree Access

    Tree Access Member

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    Thanks so far. I refer to an Email S.Garth sent out to our Chapter on March 13.
    Next question: Where can I get the Rules & Regs for the Ascent Event, as well as the score sheets?
     
  6. Tree Access

    Tree Access Member

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    Please can someone at least give me a hint where to get the rules & sheets fro the Ascent Event?
    We want to train it before we run an open event at out TCC at least once...
     
  7. Kathy_Holzer

    Kathy_Holzer Active Member

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    open ascent event will not be part of prelims for itcc 2014, but may be for 2015. if it's run this year it will be more like the head to head event. last rules committee mtg is tomorrow and i expect the final rules will be online shortly thereafter.
     
  8. Riggs

    Riggs Well-Known Member

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    Is Fred Flintstone at the meeting ? Barney I know can't make it , Betty had a dinner planned . I think they are having roast Prussik .
     
  9. LukeGlines

    LukeGlines Member

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    Is there some clarification or updates on the ascent event for the 2015 international?
     
  10. treebing

    treebing Well-Known Member

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    I really hope thY the fooylock remains an event. I still beleive thay if you cant climb without a pantin strapped to your feet, thats a measure. everybody should be able to footlock 50 feet. i think it is also the most practical for any ariel rescue. they should dock points if you have to rely on a foot ascender because in real life that means an extra step you got to take before ascent. you dont just walk up to a rescue with a pantin on. although you might.
     
  11. Boomslang

    Boomslang Well-Known Member

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    Using that logic wouldn't it make sense to ask guys to hip thrust 50ft also? I mean with footlock you have to have a prussik handy and switch over to your system once you're in the tree. Those are extra steps.

    However, I'd like to think that in 99% of real life rescue scenarios the spurs are coming out. Not many guys put in an access line for rescue (at least that I know of) and nobody wants to be fucking around with a throw ball and line when shit goes down.
     
  12. treebing

    treebing Well-Known Member

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    the speed climb is often a hip thrusting event. yeah i think that is a fundamental too that should be represented and taught. i still footlock here and there, even with a pantin on my feet.

    you might be right about the spurs though and ar
     
  13. JustinK

    JustinK Well-Known Member

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    It's funny how comp AR vs real life differ, or potentially could, or even AR practice.

    Was visiting some old coworkers the other day during their morning meeting the day after an AR practice day. This is in no way a dig at the people involved, as they're far between climbers than I am, and one is an active member here.

    One guy was talking about his "practice scenario" the day before, and being at a low, flattish rope angle, and having his lanyard wrapped a few times around the limb, and then having all his weight on the lanyard.

    He mentioned that the rescue climber had several gadgets and still had a hard time getting his lanyard off to get him to a safer angle then to the ground. He was mentioning how hard a real rescue would be in the given situation, and it indeed may be.


    I spoke up, even though I was just a visitor, and mentioned that in that scenario, and the rescue climber had the proper tools to secure the injured climber to themselves, a way to loop the tail of the rope around a crotch/or take a wrap if no crotch, cut the lanyard, and let the angle back to a safer, lower able position, then descend.

    He mentioned he had never thought of that, and I said well of course not, who cuts lanyards and/or ropes in AR practice and/or competition.
     
  14. Boomslang

    Boomslang Well-Known Member

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    And that's why comps are comps. It's all an exhibition similar to all-star skills stuff in the major sports. It's just showcasing what we're capable of, not necessarily what we do on a daily basis. That said, AR is probably the least realistic of the events despite being the one event taken most seriously.

    In real life trees are getting stabbed, ropes are getting cut, and I'm sure as shit not narrating as I go.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
  15. Raven

    Raven Well-Known Member

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    I think FL is officially dead as a work practice. During a recent climbing class here the students were asked how many use or know HOW to use the static FL technique. Zero hands went up in two consecutive sessions. It was an informal poll of a small group but 0% is a very small number, considering the comps are intended to represent best practices.
     
  16. ARLO

    ARLO Well-Known Member

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    Ditto all that, plus I would consider hanging a 4:1 MA system above the injured climber and using it to pick them up off their gear and lower them down. We do this scenario when practicing rescues and the kids are always amazed at how easy it is to safely bring a climber down out of a tree with a 4:1 system. Even a 250 pounder is no sweat. This assumes of course that you have at least two people to do the rescue and that you keep a 4:1 rescue bag in your work truck.
     
  17. treebing

    treebing Well-Known Member

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    i dont know how people can get around a tree without knowing how to footlock. that is sad to me. incomplete climbers IMO. So they all all walk around jangling pantins on their feet?
     
  18. colb

    colb Well-Known Member

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    I can see why you'd feel that way, Kevin. In my entry into this field I was self taught, a business starter up, and also from this modern era that you, in (large) part, started. My first shopping cart had a rope wrench. Guys talk about not letting newbs fly on rope runners before they learn to ddrt with a blake's hitch and I feel like that's ridiculous and ungenerous. With footlocking, it's another thing that I haven't chosen to learn - a gap. I also have other gaps. I don't sharpen my chains, I don't splice anything but a brummel, I know little about tree pathology, and my business acumen is horrible. I just started advertising two weeks ago with a Facebook boost. Should I work on footlocking? Sort of telling, I almost consider it a basic gap that I don't have a saka.

    Minimalism, is what we are talking about. Is it good? Depends. At some point you're free climbing barefoot to break off dead wood with your bare hands. Where's that at the comps? But I can see where you're a faster climber than I when you footlock 5 feet up and keep moving. And I can also see where you're a faster climber than I am, lol. Footlocking seems to be a heritage skill to me, alongside felling a tree with an axe. I think it's great that you're plugging it and I may try it out at some point if you keep it up, lol.
     
  19. treebing

    treebing Well-Known Member

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    so its partly my fault you guys are not learning to footlock. damn I repent. footlocking is great, one of my favorite skills, along with knowing how to swim. will it really go the way of the axe?
     
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  20. Raven

    Raven Well-Known Member

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    I too love a good footlock, but it's the same feeling I get when stiltwalking or spinning fire. It's fun to do and entertaining to watch when done correctly, (even funnier when done poorly haha!), but I haven't used it in production work since about 2005 when I learned the Frogwalker.

    Maybe we NEED to keep the FL in comps simply to keep the skill alive, much like log-rolling for lumberjacks. I'd be cool with that, would be a shame to see a whole generation of climbers who don't even know what it is.
     
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