Am I ropewalking wrong...?

moss

Well-Known Member

Nice neutral body position. Super relaxed. A beautiful fluid tempo. High stepping with his knees slightly out. Just some beautiful climbing by a world class climber!

As DSMc said I think your saddle/bridge setup has a lot to do with your body position while rope walking.
Love that vid
 

moss

Well-Known Member
Adjustable bridge?
That's the ticket if you want say a Hitchhiker below a chest roller. Take a look at caver's rope walking systems. they set their harness up so their primary attachment is super low so there's enough room between that and the chest roller. With the Petzl Sequoia SRT harness you have a Croll attachment point at the center front of the harness belt, that's the general idea for using a rope grab or ascent device below a chest roller. If your harness has low legstrap D's like the Tree Motion or the Petzl Sequoia open rings you could clip the rings together possibly with single carabiner like the photo below (what cavers use) to get a good position for an ascent device below a chest roller.




-AJ
 

Scratch

Active Member
Wow nice house!

Your video shows a body position very similar to mine when using the same setup so I'm watching this thread.

How are you tending the HH2? I tend my bridge ring with a 120cm Dynema sling as a chest harness. I've played around with HUT thingies and a couple DIY copies of petzl designs and even saddle suspender types but the sling is still the best option I've found.
I'm using the kydex HH2 holster attached to a chest harness with a swivel rope snap.
 

Burrapeg

Well-Known Member
Do you still have space for your hands above the "device/hitch/whatever"? Is there a reason why you don't attach the device under the roller? with a sling connected to the PMI plate to tend it.
The problem with the hitch/device below the PMI roller is when you sit back into the saddle and quit climbing, your body curves down and the roller slides down the rope towards your lap and will pinch down on top of the hitch/device and probably release it. But there is room above the device/hitch with it above the roller. It is at about neck level so you can easily reach up above it.
 
Last edited:

Burrapeg

Well-Known Member

Nice neutral body position. Super relaxed. A beautiful fluid tempo. High stepping with his knees slightly out. Just some beautiful climbing by a world class climber!

As DSMc said I think your saddle/bridge setup has a lot to do with your body position while rope walking.
Inspiring!!!! I love that bit where he bombs over to another limb. This shows one disadvantage we have, those of us who do use the chest roller. You have to remove the rope from it once you get at height, for limb walking or other activity where you need maximum mobility. Just takes a few seconds and is not really a big deal, but it is indeed one more thing to remember and have to do. If you are heavy above the waist and top heavy like some of us older farts, the chest roller is a Godsend. It is the difference between the climb being fun and relaxing or else an exhausting ordeal.
 

moss

Well-Known Member
The problem with the hitch/device below the PMI roller is when you sit back into the saddle and quit climbing, your body curves down and the roller slides down the rope towards your lap and will pinch down on top of the hitch/device and probably release it. But there is room above the device/hitch with it above the roller. It is at about neck level so you can easily reach up above it.
Yeah, if you’re a jellyfish! ;-)

I never had any issues climbing with a hitch below my chest roller. You could always put a rope grab on a sling tether above the roller to reduce fears of the roller hitting the hitch.
-AJ
 

Benjo75

Active Member
Richard Mumford has several vids explaining efficient rope walking. The best tip that I got from them was to act like you're pedaling a bicycle backwards instead of forward or just stepping straight down. That and to keep your toes on your foot ascender foot pointed downward until enough rope feeds through for it to self feed smoothly. Pedaling backwards naturally pushes your upper body forward into the rope instead of backwards like the natural stepping motion wans to do.
 

southsoundtree

Well-Known Member
What Benjo said, and don't look up.

Don't grab, only pull rope toward you, open-handed, as much as possible. This will force your feet to work.

So long as you overuse your hands, you won't learn to work without them.

Nobody has too much core-strength.
 

*useless info*

Well-Known Member
In my twisted imagery:
Wimmens are good at gymnastics balance beam cuz have a lower CoG; placed more in hip cradle(and wider hipset, the smaller feets not as big a factor) , so more stable like pyramid or martial arts squat. Guys have higher CoG; more solar plexus placed.
.
You are trying to raise your downward pressing CoG(that will then carry your carcass as a shape around it), and CoG is falling away from vertical lift (theoretical)line for less efficient lift input/not Pure Inline application of force. Rope and body are just devices and loads. Align the force points of lift against CoG. Cosine is column force, want to align lift column against CoG downward direction column(cosine 1.0, full force multiplier of input) Pure Inline to yield all of input force point against CoG as target force point. Force points carry shapes around them; resolve force points and show shapes reaction(i see same in rigging and felling). Cross-verify analysis by comparing matching force flow geometry in different ways/materials to prove/disprove or reflect on differences etc.
.
Chest harness can help keep CoG as target to move; closer to rope /directly over input of leg force to deliver all of force up, none sideways. More efficient work flow.
.
Beraneck offered ropewalk in "Fundamentals of Tree Work" i think. "On Rope" and "Nylon Highway" show in greater detail, variety and experimentation for mountain/rescue use for decades as well.
.
personal theory:
Tension side force value pulls the equal opposites more inline
>>but Compression side force value pushes equal opposites more out of line.
By this measure are fighting the inefficiency, that system tries to make worser because is compression input to allowed sideforce so not only inefficient upward, but also fighting for CoG not to get further out of line, and if it does fight even more at less efficiency as chain of events. Chest harness seeks to take inefficiency from lift and negate sidewards fight fatigue as well.
.
i think feeling, registering and sorting these things felt can give greater rigging, hinging etc. understandings .
.
i also think, and rejoice;
that wimmens look better dancing cuz of lower, more stable, flowing CoG and hipset form lends closer to ballet of stability and grace..
 
Last edited:

rico

Well-Known Member
Richard Mumford has several vids explaining efficient rope walking. The best tip that I got from them was to act like you're pedaling a bicycle backwards instead of forward or just stepping straight down. That and to keep your toes on your foot ascender foot pointed downward until enough rope feeds through for it to self feed smoothly. Pedaling backwards naturally pushes your upper body forward into the rope instead of backwards like the natural stepping motion wans to do.
Gawd knows I am NO rope walking expert, but I have always found the "pedaling a bicycle backwards" method to be inefficient, ineffective, unnatural, and just plain slow. Straight up and down the rope has always worked best for me, but what the fuck do I know?

I recently purchased the new Saka Mini-Max (highly recommended) from Mr. Mumford and this is his recommendation in his "tips for use" section-

1. During ascent keep your feet side by side while moving them Straight Up and Down the fall of the rope.
2. Remain in the most upright position possible.
3. No Bicycle Motions.
4. Smooth deliberate steps win the race.
 

Tony

Well-Known Member
As mentioned above, lower your attachment point for ascent. Also look to adjust you center of gravity on your harness to more “up right” adjustment if possible.

Tony
 

*useless info*

Well-Known Member
This mis-alignment of thrust to CoG:
>>Reduces efficiency of the lift column SOME, to be more fatiguing
But, i think the effort fighting the sideforce from pushing more mis-aligned/sideways
>>is more fatiguing as a separate value.
The climber fights both the side force pushing more outward and the loss of efficiency upward (+ nominal bodyweight).
.
If tension pull, column pull would be same loss of efficiency at same mis-alignment
>>And, side force would be same value as well, but used differently:
>>the side force would be like a wall of force pushing inwards to correct the mis-alignment, helpfully!
But, in this compression/push that same force value would be a wall of force pushing more out of alignment to fight!!
At least that is what i feel w/bod in this chain as also a sensing and calc device!
.
The force geometry of the 2 'force points' is inescapable; as shown by the Ancients;
here just skinned over with body,rope,cam forms as devices carrying the forces/force volumes produced(hopefully w/o overload).
.
Just degrees from Pure Inline; column/cosine changes very little/small efficiency drop of column; but side force/sine JUMPS by comparison. i always think at these times, like a magic act gotta watch that other hand; cuz here it can get ya!
.
Again from gymnastics flips, tilting head back would add to problem as a leveraged position adjustment away from line x head weight/falling away from rope. 'Set' to neutral or counter ballast some.
 
Last edited:

*useless info*

Well-Known Member
Images in my head.
This miss-alignment tax is more from sides force added, than lift efficiency lost!



As with any other system / chain of devices,
system seeks to perform force column work against load(cosine);
while trying to also sustain against side forces(sine).
 
Last edited:

moss

Well-Known Member
Love the deep theoretical analysis. Reminds me of teaching throwing for setting lines, I tell the aspiring climber that they’d need a computer the size of a garage to do all the calculations required to successfully get a throwbag where they want it in a tree. In order for our brain to do the complex calculations we need intent, practice and skill, and foremost, we have to get out of the way and let our brain and body do it’s job. Easier said then done. Likewise with ascending a rope, optimal gear, a few ergonomic tips, etc help. Ultimately our body seeks efficiency in movement on rope whether we consciously control it or not.
-AJ
 
Last edited:

Tony

Well-Known Member
An efficient set up will have the lowest ascenders, knee and foot bearing all load. The main, HH in this set up will just be driven up with the climber not really bearing load unless resting. If the main is loaded then you are tilted back too far. If you are look for a hands free ascent.

I think evo said it earlier, get more core strength.

As many others said, don’t overthink it. Get your chest above the HH. Drive with your legs.

Tony
 

*useless info*

Well-Known Member
In order for our brain to do the complex calculations we need intent, practice and skill, and foremost, we have to get out of the way and let our brain and body do it’s job. Easier said then done. -AJ
.
This is how i get the most out, by following the numbers on where to focus efforts most critically;
and decode what experience in shituation >> to fold back in.
If bod is in chain, then get feel for how other devices 'feel' in that position and forces involved thru sensing machine of bod
>>but for me this also means cross-verifying in other things and then finding defining differences
So at some points get interlaced fabric of related cross verifying points(hopefully).
.
Over and again, geometry of forcePoints is key.
>>device/shape's forces carried in; matter more to offering availability of geometry for forcePoint positions
>>AND if device can then sustain produced forces (and how)
(In movement, shape matters in allowing clearance etc.)
otherwise shape is as if TBird vs. Cougar vs. Continental (app re-skin; but same functionality).
.
When i talk of how Lady's movements flow more in dance it is with same imagery of having to move the CoG with force, and bod shell carries with it. The lower CoG, wider hip set is a stabler, more graceful form and moves thus. A lower Natural sway like a solo tree that didn't get brutal branch raise lower 'watusi' in wind, vs. harshly raised branches/shape placing CoG high for more high leveraging shoulder toss of a man's CoG by comparison. For same stability, raised CoG should get wider base that is not available. Simply see model in all things; even the most joyous!
.
The offset rope climb can feel how much extra forces and work out of alignment produces.
>>translates to how quickly side force builds against falling tree hinge etc.
By feel, body knowing, experience etc. can make, perhaps urge the connection(s) towards that what AJ proposes.
.
i also like his word "intent"
i try to focus and plot my intent purposefully as it's own force point thru the devices, to move the CoG; that then carries the rest of the frame/shape that contains said CoG. Dr. Wayne Dyer has done a book on 'Power of Intention' as a force description he had been searching for and found just before cardiac surgery in the Carlos Castenada books:
"In the universe there is an immeasurable, indescribable force which shamans call intent, and absolutely everything that exists in the entire cosmos is attached to intent by a connecting link. " -Active Side of Infinity.
He called persevering searching folk, of active pit-bull drive: warriors, but not in the killing sense. “The basic difference between an ordinary man and a warrior is that a warrior takes everything as a challenge, while an ordinary man takes everything as a blessing or a curse.” don Juan (teacher) whom also de-scribes intention as "silently willing something into being " (w/full focus)
.
These purposefull, intentfull CORRECT ways; are the path of the 'warriors' described.
As like, 'heavy', purposeful hands in a Tai Chi type movement.
.
The purposeful l-earning down to pivotal points, then purposeful intention back thru those points is a game if not a life changer.
After all, and still; "Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Beacon
.
Am old, tree money gone, as is back strength. These are the most prevailing gifts that Tree Life has given me.
 
Last edited:

moss

Well-Known Member
These purposefull, intentfull CORRECT ways; are the path of the 'warriors' described.
As like, 'heavy', purposeful hands in a Tai Chi type movement.
.
The purposeful l-earning down to pivotal points, then purposeful intention back thru those points is a game if not a life changer.
After all, and still; "Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Beacon
.
Am old, tree money gone, as is back strength. These are the most prevailing gifts that Tree Life has given me.
Great thoughts! I continue to like where this conversation is wandering.

Continuing on low center of gravity (COG), have any of you noticed that after a long day in trees, when you're back on the ground, your legs feel deeply rooted, as if the soles of your feet are glued to the ground? No one could push you over. That stability extends up into your hips and abdomen, the upper body is free to move with strength for whatever task is at hand. It may be that you feel that way all the time and don't notice as much ;-) There are facts and there is mystery in this tree climbing activity.

For ascent I urge new climbers to keep their feet and legs under them as much as is possible and to think like the heliotrope plant, from a "compressed" stance move the body straight up in line with the rope. Just that simple adjustment makes a big difference in efficiency. As others have said, it's all in the core muscles, like an inchworm compressing then extending upwards. Or in a ropewalker alternating leg compressions and extensions, the core motion is still critical. Any effort pushing off the vertical axis is working against you.
-AJ
 
Top