Aerial Rescue Challenge from Wesspur and the Ascension Group

Burrapeg

Well-Known Member
Had a great time at this thing but only connected with SomethingWitty and that was by accident. Good turnout, looked like maybe 75 to 80 people came. Maybe we should wear name tags? I only found out which one was Richard the second day and he was so busy officiating in one of the events that I did not get a chance to visit with him. I really did not recognize him from his videos. As to the rest of us, we mostly don't know what each other looks like at all or even our real names.
 

CanadianStan

Well-Known Member
Had a great time at this thing but only connected with SomethingWitty and that was by accident. Good turnout, looked like maybe 75 to 80 people came. Maybe we should wear name tags? I only found out which one was Richard the second day and he was so busy officiating in one of the events that I did not get a chance to visit with him. I really did not recognize him from his videos. As to the rest of us, we mostly don't know what each other looks like at all or even our real names.
I was going to say .. I never saw you! I was teching in the spar pole rescue event
 

evo

Well-Known Member
I know, and I am looking forward to it.

@rico?
@evo?
There must be a few more locals.
I want too, but too crazy caring for my ill wife and kids and running a business. Looks like it was everything it was supposed to be and more, sorry I missed it. Looking to you and those that went for a solid description of what you learned
 

SomethingWitty

Arkansawyer
Had a great time at this thing but only connected with SomethingWitty and that was by accident. Good turnout, looked like maybe 75 to 80 people came. Maybe we should wear name tags? I only found out which one was Richard the second day and he was so busy officiating in one of the events that I did not get a chance to visit with him. I really did not recognize him from his videos. As to the rest of us, we mostly don't know what each other looks like at all or even our real names.
Man, I was definitely disappointed with how few buzzers I met there, but @Steve Connally is always a pleasure to work around. He was in a hurry because it ran late so I didn't get to bug him much, but he was our in-tree technician for the team rescue using a skate block for a horizontal extraction from a thick canopy, and he stayed long enough for us to debrief.
Stan is a great guy who clearly has it together, and burrapeg is really the coolest tinkery old dude. I'm building a bicycle cart for my gear as soon as I get home.
 

SomethingWitty

Arkansawyer
Skate block?
Yep. They fed us a bunch of rope access crap. Most of it had little practical application and the security of each of the doubled systems was substantially less than the security of our one system (carabiners could easily get tangled and side loaded, for example).


And then something amazing happened. Within about two days, these bumbling retards had wrapped their heads around the tools and techniques they were playing with and began to look like professional climbers again, but this time using gear they had a maximum of a couple of hours using. I don't know that our instructors really acknowledged how quickly we all assimilated this new mountain of knowledge, but I do know that the mechanical advantage and vector forces demonstration taught many of us only a little bit. One thing was the skate block rigging system, which is basically an MRS system where the tail is a load point (so no hitch, the load rides the pulley) You effectively get a controlled speed line with one point that has a natural tendency to keep the load legs at a 120 degree angle. That means that you create horizontal movement of approximately one third of the height without applying any additional effort into the system.
 

RyTheTreeGuy

Well-Known Member
Skate block?
High AngleScreenshot_20190909-211140_Chrome.jpg Rescue system that is basically a MRS system. It is anchored and belayed at the bottom with a high re-directional point. Use a Kootenay or pulley to attach patient to standing part designed to move patient out and away on a diagonal to clear any hazards or obstructions.
 

evo

Well-Known Member
Gotcha... Seems simple enough if the climber is already on a moving rope system. Set up the backup, and the controls then snip the friction hitch or control their prussic on the ride with them. How long was the set up time? I've experimented using a this system in reverse (moving things up hill) not knowing the name, didn't work so well in that application.
In this application for a 100' vertical rescue one would need a hank of 250' or greater for the moving portion, and a hank over 150 for the static. That would be a pretty steep angle for the ground anchor.
 

SomethingWitty

Arkansawyer
Gotcha... Seems simple enough if the climber is already on a moving rope system. Set up the backup, and the controls then snip the friction hitch or control their prussic on the ride with them. How long was the set up time? I've experimented using a this system in reverse (moving things up hill) not knowing the name, didn't work so well in that application.
In this application for a 100' vertical rescue one would need a hank of 250' or greater for the moving portion, and a hank over 150 for the static. That would be a pretty steep angle for the ground anchor.
We were both rather slow.
We had a harassing/heckling public, bumbling fire fighters, difficult communication (I was pushing for some sena action, even if we had to borrow some), and terrible visibility.
Both teams had him safely on the ground in between 35 and 40 minutes. Team one had a less organized structure, less prep time, more trouble on the ground, and a much more confident in-tree production.
Team two had an hour rather than 20 minutes to prepare, was more structured, had roles established, and had a couple of difficulties in the tree that really made the judging close.


Any actual training together would make any group of the people there into a seriously efficient force. Everyone showed some impressive poise and adaptability in the face of some serious curveballs.
 

evo

Well-Known Member
We were both rather slow.
We had a harassing/heckling public, bumbling fire fighters, difficult communication (I was pushing for some sena action, even if we had to borrow some), and terrible visibility.
Both teams had him safely on the ground in between 35 and 40 minutes. Team one had a less organized structure, less prep time, more trouble on the ground, and a much more confident in-tree production.
Team two had an hour rather than 20 minutes to prepare, was more structured, had roles established, and had a couple of difficulties in the tree that really made the judging close.


Any actual training together would make any group of the people there into a seriously efficient force. Everyone showed some impressive poise and adaptability in the face of some serious curveballs.
That is rather impressive, assuming that it was teams with mixed degrees of practice. So guessing an established/practiced crew might be looking at 15-30 minutes from showing up onsite establishing a plan, hazard assessment, and execution.
 

SomethingWitty

Arkansawyer
I don't know about the other team, but we had Miko, who has some emergency management experience, and Evan, who has done training with a local fire/rescue team. The rest of us are just arborists, and those two mostly are. I believe that my team could have done that rescue in 15-25 minutes with a more complete rescue rigging kit, a full complement of senas, and 40 hours of training together. The fact that we were all running foreign backup systems that we wouldn't use in real life and that they basically spoon fed us a scenario that we planned for but then switched it out on us cost some time.


And thank you. The average fire rescue from a tree in the US is over 3 hours.
 

CanadianStan

Well-Known Member
I don't know about the other team, but we had Miko, who has some emergency management experience, and Evan, who has done training with a local fire/rescue team. The rest of us are just arborists, and those two mostly are. I believe that my team could have done that rescue in 15-25 minutes with a more complete rescue rigging kit, a full complement of senas, and 40 hours of training together. The fact that we were all running foreign backup systems that we wouldn't use in real life and that they basically spoon fed us a scenario that we planned for but then switched it out on us cost some time.


And thank you. The average fire rescue from a tree in the US is over 3 hours.
Every time I read one of your posts now, I read it in your Arkansas accent
 

SomethingWitty

Arkansawyer
Every time I read one of your posts now, I read it in your Arkansas accent
I am constantly accused of being a transplant because my accent is so weak.
I know there's a little bit there. I considered really hamming it up for the weekend.

I got the rankings and access to some name spelling so I put a thread in the winner section.
 

Raven

Well-Known Member
Great job there guys, was super bummed I couldn't cram this in my schedule maybe next year.

Please give us more details on the scenarios and format, and maybe some pics too?
 
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SomethingWitty

Arkansawyer
Great job there guys, was super bummed I couldn't cram this in my schedule maybe next year.

Please give us more details on the scenarios and format, and maybe some pics too?
The timed event was a rebelay. We ascended 30 feet with a backup line with an asap, set up a descent system (rig or ID were standard) with a backup, moved our ascent system towards our anchor across the span with backup, traversed about 50 feet, switched the descent system and backup to a descent line, pulled off ascent gear, and hit the dirt.

Spar rescue was a climber pushing a chunk off the top of a spar on spikes, tied in to his lanyard and a moving system through a ring n ring. The saw kicked, he cut about halfway through his left arm.
The log was hanging from a block and locked off on the GRCS. He was spraying blood everywhere. You had to quickly assess the scene, lower the log, spike up the pole about 40 feet with two systems, tourniquet him to stop him from bleeding out (it could happen in minutes with a nasty cut), get his spikes out of the log and loosen his lanyard to be able to move him down, and carefully get him to the EMTs. 9:00 was the time limit, with my assumption being that the climber had bled out at that point.
Everyone was rocking fake blood stains all day.

Pickoff on ascent was straight out of sprat level 1, with a tree job scene assessment. Unconscious climber around 30 feet hanging in a croll with a hand ascender tethered on and an ASAP backup. You climb his backup while backed up on his climb line, pick him up out of his ascenders and hang him from you, and come down.

Pickoff from descent was actually more like a cat rescue. She didn't have a climbing line to descend. A poacher fell from her climbing stand and got wedged in a fork. She had a cheesy Walmart rope tether that kept her from falling to the ground. There was a bigol crack in her helmet and some makeup that looked like a huge bruise on her face. The paramedic suspected C-spine injury, so you throw a line in, ascend, secure her, and then check her for a spinal injury. Extremities had to have feeling and movement, and you palpate the entire spine to feel for something obviously out of place. Once she checked out, it was assumed that she only had a concussion and you bring her to the ground.

They were good scenarios. Lemme find you some pictures.
 

Steve Connally

Well-Known Member
So a few responses. The instructors did acknowledge how well everyone did with such little experience on the gear. We may not have blown a whole lotta smoke up your butt but the discussions between us reflected it. We aren't the warm and fuzzy types but I was clearly evident to us, you guys got it!!! Got it well!! They heckling---yup not a fan. I put a stop to it on the second evolution. Have my thoughts on it but I won't belabor it on here. Lets just say- sorry it went on as long as it did.. I was so busy, so exhausted, I couldn't tell you who I met and who I didn't. I apologize for that. You really just need to grab me and say hey, i'm so and so on the buzz. Maybe a slap across the face would get my attention. If you are friends with Michael Oxman on facebook, he has tons of picks and many of the training lectures and events recorded. Everyone had a positive attitude and welcomed the new information. You may never use these techniques but you learned them with an open mind and a good attitude. It was a great event.
 
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