Addressing hitch binding with the Rope Wrench on descent

Discussion in 'Stationary Rope Technique-Half the rope, twice the' started by moss, Feb 4, 2016.

  1. John@TreeXP

    John@TreeXP Member

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    Thanks, Tim. Good advice for sure and I do appreciate the economic benefits of using double fisherman's knots. I also called a couple places and at Bartlett, without saying there's a definitive answer, it's pretty clear that a 28" eye&eye, is the proper length for a VT tied RW. Alternatively, I was told that a 30" may work well too, if tied in a Distel hitch or as Moss recommended, a Michoan, Cooper's Hitch. What's even more perplexing is how none of this relevant info is included in either the RW's or the eye&eye's marketing material and/or information.
     
  2. moss

    moss Well-Known Member

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    There's probably a bias assuming that anyone purchasing a RW already knows a fair amount about different kinds of hitches and cords. Michoacan or Cooper's probably best. For a 30" E-2-E Cooper's is very good, try 5 coils and two twists, add or subtract twists to tune it for your rope. VT not great because the #1 hitch rule for the wrench is it must always set unassisted when you weight your system, VT doesn't "auto-set" very well on single rope.
    -AJ
     
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  3. John@TreeXP

    John@TreeXP Member

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    A Michoacan hitch seems like it'll work perfectly with my 30" cords. From what I dug up online, the Cooper's seems similar to the VT, and the Michoacan is more like a Blakes, but with a better balanced tie in. I'm grateful for everyone's assistance and expertise on the matter.

    Not sure if this is a Michoacan, but it looks like a good RW option too.
     
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  4. surveyor

    surveyor Well-Known Member

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    That looks like an interesting hitch. I like the way it forms two parts, with the wraps above and the base below. As long as the base does not cinch up so tight that it becomes hard to tend and works to push the top part of the hitch upon ascent.
     
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  5. WaitakKauri

    WaitakKauri Well-Known Member

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    Echoing surveyor, the cosmo looks interesting.

    Check out the resources on the main TreeBuzz homepage (not the forms). There are some good pdfs with the major hitches including some interesting history. I really like the knut, but recommend a shorter length than 30" on 11mm.
     
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  6. Brocky

    Brocky Well-Known Member

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    I played with it some and wasn't impressed. The lower part separates too much from the wraps. Cycling it up and down a few times the bottom would loosen up and separate causing it to slip a few inches before grabbing.
    In the video the legs are brought together parallel to each other but tend to want to be crossed instead. After I tried crossing the ends it worked a little better but would still slip.
     
  7. WaitakKauri

    WaitakKauri Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for this feedback Brocky
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  8. Brocky

    Brocky Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to test some more with real short legs, that may help it from spreading too far apart. I think this shows how it is tied. IMG_1081.JPG

    From previous testing, the left eye seems to want to cross the right one. It didn't seem to help with holding. Also tried the right eye over the left, no better. One other modification I tried was putting the left eye behind the bottom loop, about the same results.
     
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  9. Brocky

    Brocky Well-Known Member

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    Well, just tried it again and had no slipping. I must not have had the tension in the two legs equalized on my previous attempts. All the variations worked.
     
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  10. Brocky

    Brocky Well-Known Member

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    I added another wrap from what is shown in the video and it works very good. If it were used on a lanyard it can be tended by just pulling up on the rope, nothing else needed.
     
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  11. SpaceGhost

    SpaceGhost Active Member

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    Using a CT fixe pulley with the rope wrench made it work for me. It moves the legs slightly closer together and for whatever reason it functions perfectly now with a 3/2 VT. I am wrenching 28" 8mm beeline spliced on 10mm HTP and Escalator.
     
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  12. TimBr

    TimBr Well-Known Member

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    I thought I'd post a link to another thread that deals with the hitch binding issue. It's getting late, and I have not re-read this whole thread tonight to make sure the thread I'm about to post a link to hasn't already been mentioned. Hopefully no harm done, either way.

    Here's the link:

    http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/hitch-cord-vs-climbing-rope.25821/

    Thanks again to the moderators for making this thread a "stickie".

    Tim
     
  13. AshWilliams

    AshWilliams Member

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    First post here and first srt climb ever today after 10 years of ddrt. Me likey!

    8mm beeline distel on bluemoon with a rope wrench. It had some troubles...
    But srt is sweet!
    Prolly gona keep plugging away on the wrench and look for a better cord to use with bluemoon. I have a hh2 + ocean 10mm on order so between the rit, op and beeline I'm thinking I've got the tools to start working srt with some smoooothness.
    Anyways, hey all, long time lurker and Arborist (relatively speaking), first time treebuzz poster!
     
  14. swingdude

    swingdude De' Island Buzzer

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    9.3 epicord you can thank me later. Try a michoacan as the distel bites too much.
     
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  15. TimBr

    TimBr Well-Known Member

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    @AshWilliams; Welcome to the TreeBuzz forum! Congratulations on making your first post!

    I usually tell new posters "I think you are going to like it here.", but since you are a long time lurker, I already know that to be true.

    It is good to read you. Please feel free to jump in with both feet. I'm sure you have some stories to tell.

    Tim
     
  16. AshWilliams

    AshWilliams Member

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    Thanks for the warm welcome.
     
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  17. DSMc

    DSMc Well-Known Member

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    LOL! That is an excellent way to deal with any hitch binding problems with the rope wrench.
     
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  18. AshWilliams

    AshWilliams Member

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    Haha yea, I've been looking at the photos of your setup pretty closely and I love the simplicity. I got a few reps in with the hh2 yesterday and it's an awesome piece of kit...the wrench might start feeling neglected soon....
     
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  19. swingdude

    swingdude De' Island Buzzer

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    Oh Dave.....behave Sir.
     
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  20. TimBr

    TimBr Well-Known Member

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    Hey, Dave! Funny post, but with a serious idea underlaying it. It has been awhile since I've put in serious climbing time, and now I cannot recall if the "hitch binding" issue was limited to the Rope Wrench only, or if I had similar issues when using the Hitch Hiker. I guess the question is whether the problems mostly stem from a bad combination of hitch cord and rope, or whether the device itself is a factor.

    I'm assuming that you must have put some time in using the Rope Wrench, is that correct? If so, did you find that for some reason the Hitch Hiker tended to avoid the hitch binding issue?

    I guess a somewhat controlled study would require a climber to use the same hitch cord and rope combination, and possibly the same exact hitch configuration, and see how the end results differed. One might need to modify the way a particular hitch gets tied going from the Rope Wrench to the Hitch Hiker, though, as the Rope Wrench may not add in as much friction to the system as does the Hitch Hiker.

    Any thoughts you have at all on a comparison between the two devices would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.

    Tim
     

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