Samson Vortex Issues

R

Ryan-H

Is anybody else having the same issue with the Samson Vortex? I love this rope, but the new batches we've been getting have been doing this: [see attached photo, new (left) versus old (right).]

The sheath bunches up badly in my hitch, too. While I know this is not the case, it subjectively feels like there's 30% less core inside the sheath as compared to normal batches. Samson has told us that they acknowledge there is a defect, but that they haven't been able to replicate the bend themselves; all seven of our climbers can anywhere along the lengths of the six ropes that we've had this issue with. I'm really bummed--the Vortex was great in the hands, worked SRT and DdRT, and had practically no stretch--but the stuff we've been getting lately is worrying.
 

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That does look very noticably different. My Vortex looks like the stuff you have in the right hand in the photo. The only thing I don't like about my Vortex is that it seems to "pick" too easily.

Your photo almost looks like two entirely different ropes. It almost smacks of cheapening a products costs to increase profit, or to at least maintain an old profit margin. Like what happens at the grocery store when they shrink the standard ice cream container from 1/2 gallon down to 1.75 quarts, and then again down to 1.5 quarts, which is where we are now. (Two quarts = 1/2 of a gallon, for those Buzzer's on the metric system.) So they keep shrinking the containers, as if people are not going to notice.

I hope that is not what is going on here, and that this really is a "defect" that they can figure out and fix. My more cynical side gets the feeling that they changed the rope components and hoped that the sales would continue based on its past reputation.

My guts say to let other ropes have a try. If I were the president of that company, and I knew a guy like you was buying nothing but my rope for all his guys, I would want to work hard to get corrected, old-style ropes back into his hands as quickly as possible. I would want to arrange a swap of all the "bad" ropes for an entire batch of "good" ropes. This is the kind of thing that ruins reputations.

I would want to talk to the head honchos about making this right, just to give them a fair chance to keep from losing me as a customer.

Thanks for posting this.

One question I have for you is, what exactly do you mean by the phrase "replicate the bend". Are you talking about how much smaller the two ropes look, next to each other when bent like that? Or is there some other quality of it that you're referring to?

Thanks for any answer you choose to give.

Tim
 
TimBr said:
One question I have for you is, what exactly do you mean by the phrase "replicate the bend". Are you talking about how much smaller the two ropes look, next to each other when bent like that? Or is there some other quality of it that you're referring to?
Click to expand...

Yeah, they apparently weren't able to replicate the defect (they sharp bend shown on the new rope in the picture above.) None of our staff had any difficulty replicating the bend in the three ropes we first received or in the three replacement ropes.

RajElectric said:
Not here, just over 2 years old, mine doesn't sharply bend. Curious if you are able to measure the core and count the strands.
Click to expand...

No, although it would have been smart to. We sent the ropes back intact for analysis. The break came out close to the Vortex's recorded rope strength, which is good.
 
Hopefully it was a mislabeled product for another application, I really, really like vortex.

That's how I got an upgrade on my saddle, clearance price on "old stock" but had updated model in the bag.
 
Ryan, where did you get this vortex at??

I have 3 hanks 300ft, 200ft and 150ft and none do that...that looks not right at all
 
Ryan-H said:
Is anybody else having the same issue with the Samson Vortex?....
Click to expand...

I just went out and looked at mine. The newest one can be pinched flat like in your pictures and the oldest one not quite. However, these ropes all preform the same and the newest one does not feel defective in any way. No bunching up under the hitch on SRWP, though I did have to milk off the excess sheath after the first couple of climbs. I do know that all my ropes get stiffer with use. That is not a problem with Vortex but I do like the super soft feel of a new hank.
 
Thanks for this post, Dave. Are you saying that the newer Vortex feels just the same as the old stuff? The "hand" of the rope is similar? To me, just looking at the photos, it looks obviously thinner, which implies less strength, although not necessarily so.

Thanks again for your post, and any other comments you choose to express.

Tim
 
Tim, softer not thinner. When the rope is new the fibers are very slick and have not taken a set from being worked. This makes new Vortex feel really soft and malleable.
 
Samson stopped using their SureGrip coating on Vortex rope... customers complained about the tacky/sticky feel of the coating and how the rope's interaction with the hitch changed as the coating wore off. Newer hanks of Vortex have a noticeably different look and feel as a result. The coatings also affect the rope's stiffness and hand, etc. so I believe that what you're seeing is perfectly normal.
 
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